Having a problem in a residential Sub-Panel outside in Garage.

[GerryC]

Feed from Main Panel 60 amp 4-Wire to Sub-Panel in Garage outside. The sub-panel feeds circuits to pool equipment Pump 240v 20 amps, heater gas control circuit only, Salt generator 240v 20 amps, pool lighting 120v 15 amps, receptacles and lighting in garage. the problem i am having is when i plug in an electric leaf blower to a GFIC controlled receptacle and the Pool pump is on (GFIC C/B) the 240 v 20 amp GFCI C/B trips but not the GFIC controlled receptacle or the dedicated
C/B that controls it. ANY IDEAS

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Most common reason for that would be a misconnected neutral. That is a neutral terminated to the wrong GFCI.

 

[petersonra]

GFCI's can be a little funky. Best bet is to hire a competent person to come out and take a look. Some GFCIs are known to be somewhat sensitive to noise, and your electric leaf blower might be generating enough noise to cause the GFCI that is tripping some grief.

There is no way to tell you what to do, even if the rules of the forum allowed us to help DIYer's perform electrical work.

 

[petersonra]

Most common reason for that would be a misconnected neutral. That is a neutral terminated to the wrong GFCI.

Does it trip when something other than the blower is being powered by that receptacle?

 

[GerryC]

No, it's funny the GFIC outlet is all by it self on a dedicate circuit and that dose not Tripp but the Pool Pump is on a GFIC 2 pole C/B Tripps

 

[GerryC]

GFCI's can be a little funky. Best bet is to hire a competent person to come out and take a look. Some GFCIs are known to be somewhat sensitive to noise, and your electric leaf blower might be generating enough noise to cause the GFCI that is tripping some grief.

There is no way to tell you what to do, even if the rules of the forum allowed us to help DIYer's perform electrical work.

 

[GerryC]

This is my own house all the work that was done for my pool was done by me and was inspected and certified.

 

[GerryC]

Most common reason for that would be a misconnected neutral. That is a neutral terminated to the wrong GFCI.

 

[GerryC]

The GFIC rec. is wired fine the sub panel has a separate neutral bus and a ground bus. when this happens the GFIC rec. dose not tripp just the 240v 2 pole C/B and the leaf blower stays running

 

[petersonra]

Do you have other receptacles you can plug the blower in? If so does it trip when you plug them in to other receptacles?

 

[synchro]

Is the leaf blower double-insulated so that is has a 2-prong plug? If so then perhaps the following scenario could be occurring:

The noise current created by the blower will flow in equal amounts through both its L1 (hot) and the neutral leads because there's not a path for a leakage current to ground that could unbalance these currents. And because the two noise currents are balanced then the 120V GFCI should not detect any significant common-mode current and so it's not likely to trip.

Now the noise current through L1 will create a noise voltage on the L1 bus of the sub-panel due to the impedance of the feeder conductors. But unlike the blower, the pool pump is likely to have a significant capacitance to ground that can be a leakage path. Therefore the noise voltage on L1 will create a noise current from L1 through this capacitance to the equipment ground. However, there should not be any significant noise voltage on L2 and so there will not be a corresponding noise current from L2 to equipment ground. Therefore the noise current will not be balanced between L1 and L2 and this can cause the 2-pole GFCI breaker feeding the pump to trip.

 

[suemarkp]

Maybe try a ferrite bed on the 120V GFCI circuit to reduce any voltage spikes kicked back into the system by the leaf blower. LOAD side is probably better, but it seems like either LINE or LOAD would work since its making its way back to the 240V circuit.

Are the 120V and 240V conductors sharing a conduit? If so, there could be some inductive or capacitive coupling there.

 

[robertd]

I would guess the motor is generating RFI that's tripping the GFCI. You could try putting a couple of clamp on ferrite RFI supressers on the power cord. Put them at the leaf blower end, not the plug end of the cord. If you put "clip-on ferrite rfi" into ebay or amazon you can find them. It looks like most of the sellers sell "kits" of 5 or more. If you want to just buy 2 or 3 you could use Mouser or Digikey or Newark.
For Mouser https://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Ferrites/_/N-fb8t2?P=1y95kch turns up 579 of them.

 

[robertd]

Maybe try a ferrite bed on the 120V GFCI circuit to reduce any voltage spikes kicked back into the system by the leaf blower. LOAD side is probably better, but it seems like either LINE or LOAD would work since its making its way back to the 240V circuit.

Are the 120V and 240V conductors sharing a conduit? If so, there could be some inductive or capacitive coupling there.

You beat me by 2 minutes.

 

[GerryC]

Thanks Guys I will try that

 

[Alc609]

Had some crazy stuff happening one time like this because someone had used the bonding screw in subpanel

 

[kwired]

Is this simple universal motor for the leaf blower?

Is it variable speed blower of some type? Variable speed would be more prone to causing interference than simple universal motor. Simple universal motor may be more likely to have inductive kickback cause tripping - but more likely at the instant you turn it off rather than while running.

Is the pool pump motor a GFCI or did someone think an AFCI is the same thing? AFCI might be even more susceptible to interference than a GFCI.

Also maybe press test button on the single pole to make sure it actually does trip.

 

[Greentagger]

Cut off the 2 pole to pump. Try test button on 120V controlled gfci receptacle. Will leaf blower work? What are results?

Turn off power to single pole to dedicated gfci. With 2 pole on does pump run? Operate it’s test button.

Open panel cover. Is there a neutral present at 2 pole gfci for pump, if so ,should not be.

 

[Rick 0920]

Hopefully a ground rod wasn't driven at the outbuilding. If so, it's not necessary and could be causing objectionable current. It sounds like you have a neutral to ground connection somewhere. See Art. 250.6 Objectionable Current

 

[petersonra]

Hopefully a ground rod wasn't driven at the outbuilding. If so, it's not necessary and could be causing objectionable current. It sounds like you have a neutral to ground connection somewhere. See Art. 250.6 Objectionable Current

why would a ground rod at a separate structure cause objectionable current? It is supposed to be connected to the EGC. There should be no current there except in the case of a fault.