DH Electric Co
Electrons, Chess, Bacon & Broads.
- Location
- Addison, IL
- Occupation
- Electrician
What did I start oh gosh 
GFCI sub-panel feed to avoid GFCI circuit breakers in sub-panel?
- Thread starter DH Electric Co
- Start date
- Status
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Nothing in 210.8 that requires lighting to be GFCI protected other than within crawl space [210.8(E)] but nothing in 210.8 prohibits it either.
But I have a further question, what constitutes a crawl space? Is it if a 4ft tall person cannot stand upright, is it 5ft, or is it less than 3ft?
Too late, you did it.What did I start oh gosh
DH Electric Co
Electrons, Chess, Bacon & Broads.
- Location
- Addison, IL
- Occupation
- Electrician
All lighting circuits for the house are in the main panel. The only thing I would transfer from the main panel to the sub-panel would be a AC unit & a electric range. [to make room for TVSS and the feeder breaker to supply the sub-panel] Any other circuits in the sub-panel would be the new home theatre room, ie: circuit for the electronic equipment & stereo, circuit for the lighting limited to the room only, and wall outlets required by code for finished off walls.
DH Electric Co
Electrons, Chess, Bacon & Broads.
- Location
- Addison, IL
- Occupation
- Electrician
I'm going to just put in branch circuit GFCI breakers in the sub box, it was just a question that I posed to see if I could main it with a GFCI. I'm just trying to learn this new code book and wanted direction. Thanks everyone for the comments & advice.
I agree with you about 210.8, but the 215 allows the "feeder for receptacle circuits" to be GFCI protected but does not mention lighting.
The rooms that you are wiring "require" GFCI protected circuit" or "GFCI protected receptacles"?
DH Electric Co
Electrons, Chess, Bacon & Broads.
- Location
- Addison, IL
- Occupation
- Electrician
It's one room, a big home theatre in a basement. I just looked thru the dozen emails from the homeowner and couldn't find the one where the permit was pulled to see exact wording on if "circuit" or "receptacles" need to be GFCI. I'll just GFCI anything new leaving the panel. It's actually going to be finished off basement so by the 2014 code they go by doesn't require it, but I was told somewhere in an email to do it. I'll probably AFCI it also.
They are on an older NEC [the codes change here every 3 blocks depending what cycle they are on] so I'll just do it modern to the 2020 and walk away happy.
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
No. The requirement for GFCI is for receptacles. Adding GFCI to lighting circuits is a design choice and not disallowed.
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
What did I start oh gosh
Don't worry. It is our nature to pick details apart. I think you've settled on a fine plan.
Jon
DH Electric Co
Electrons, Chess, Bacon & Broads.
- Location
- Addison, IL
- Occupation
- Electrician
On this job 1 circuit is up by the ceiling, 2 outlets to feed LED rope lights [on a 3 way] that will circle the room . Maybe 40-50 feet of rope LED's in a soffit to give indirect lighting off of the ceiling to the theatre. I'll AFCI/GFCI it with the other circuits I install. The homeowner will be hanging curtains to replicate a real old time movie theatre like I went to as a kid. So a potential fire hazard.
So even though this jurisdiction is going by the 2014 code, and GFCI isn't required in "finished" off parts of a basement, the AHJ is requiring it. I'd do it anyways. Our basement has flooded more than once, I believe any wall receptacles below grade should be GFCI.
They aren't requiring AFCI's, but I will install them anyways. When the area catches up to the current code my work will be there already. ;-)
3 blocks away inside "incorporated" city limits everything I'm doing is required already. Different jurisdiction. Different code cycle. Illinois is a joke when it comes to electrical work, the NEC is sometimes also for other reasons.
I started this thread because I'm still learning the 2020, and couldn't find the code or lack of a code on the sub-panel install regarding GFCI protection.
Thank you again to all who responded, and even those of you who confused the matter.
I've worked with a bunch of you confused sparky's, and enjoyed breaking bread and drinking with you after work.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Confused? Non of us are confused, we just have different opinions.
qcroanoke
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
- Location
- Roanoke, VA.
- Occupation
- Sorta retired........
I would.
VirutalElectrician
Senior Member
- Location
- Mpls, MN
- Occupation
- Sparky - Trying to be retired
AC and range? Why would you move the two largest loads the house has to a sub panel? Why not pick lighter loads?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Nothing in that rule restricts the protection to only receptacle circuits. The rule is just giving the installer an additional method of providing the GFCI protection required in 210.8.
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
You new around here? We love flogging a dead horse into a greasy spot on the ground. ;^)What did I start oh gosh
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
DrSparks
The Everlasting Know-it-all!
- Location
- Madison, WI, USA
- Occupation
- Master Electrician and General Contractor
I think this is now required in 2021 and I agree with it, as most basements are just basements with walls and you're still standing on a concrete slab below grade.
Now the way I finish basements, with a raised wooden subfloor system, I would not see the need. But I he NEC always errs on the side of caution, and most people don't take the extra time and expense to protect their basement investment.
- Status