GFCI receptacle inside of kitchen cabinet

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68Malibu383

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Location
Raleigh, NC
I inspected a new construction home today and one of the two kitchen GFCI receptacles was located inside of a cabinet. It would be very inconvenient to reset, but is this allowed by NEC?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible).
Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to actions such as to use tools, to climb over or remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

Some interpretations on what is allowable may vary, but the need to remove obstacles seems pretty likely. Also seems likely that a receptacle located above countertop but not in a cabinet could also have an obstacle to move to gain access, yet most will let that go.

:huh:
 

rcarroll

Senior Member
Some interpretations on what is allowable may vary, but the need to remove obstacles seems pretty likely. Also seems likely that a receptacle located above countertop but not in a cabinet could also have an obstacle to move to gain access, yet most will let that go.

:huh:
Yep. Now here's the quandary, we inspectors do final inspections on new houses and there are NO obstacles to remove. We pass the job.
Now, H/O moves in & creates a violation by installing obstacles in front of GFI outlets. What to do? :)
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Folks if someone sits a microwave in front of a GFCI receptacle on a counter top it often has to be moved to reset the receptacle. Is this a violation ?

You want to talk about violations then what about all the things people put in the required work space of the main electrical panels.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
. . . one of the two kitchen GFCI receptacles . . . .
The NEC does not require two receptacles. It requires two SABCs. It is conceivable to have two circuits, one feeding the top half of a duplex and the other feeding the bottom half, and having no other receptacles in the kitchen. Mind you, that would be a mighty small kitchen.

 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I inspected a new construction home today and one of the two kitchen GFCI receptacles was located inside of a cabinet. It would be very inconvenient to reset, but is this allowed by NEC?

Id say no. If you have to remove dishes to reset the gfci, it's not readily accessible.

The GFCI receptacle must be "installed in a readily accessible location" per 210.8. Readily accessible is defined in Article 100 and must not have "obstacles" in the way, that must be removed.

There is no definition of "obstacle" to fall back on,

There is no Code requirement that dishes be stacked in front of a GFCI receptacle to create an obstacle. However, the Code need to have ready access to the TEST and RESET buttons should suffice to remind the occupant to keep the GFCI area open.

Otherwise, if a stack of dishes is enough to void the readily accessible location in the cupboard, then a cookie jar is enough to void ANY readily accessible receptacle location on the counter backsplash, and a two foot tall trash can is enough to void ANY location for a receptacle along ANY wall below two foot above finished floor..
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Yep. Now here's the quandary, we inspectors do final inspections on new houses and there are NO obstacles to remove. We pass the job.
Now, H/O moves in & creates a violation by installing obstacles in front of GFI outlets. What to do? :)

True.

My counter level GFI (in wall) has a big coffee pot in front of it, is that an "obstacle"?

An "obstacle" would be like having to remove screws to a cover to gain the access needed. If a GFI device (w/o receptacles on it) was behind a blank cover, it would still be considered "accessible" but you would have an obvious "obstacle" in the way.

NEC needs to rethink their verbiage use, or at least provide clarity. I would think if the kitchen goods can be moved easily by one person, then it's not an "obstacle". A fridge is made to roll in/out by just one person, so anything behind the fridge should still be "accessible" and the fridge should not be an "obstacle".


ob·sta·cle

/ˈäbstək(ə)l/ Learn to pronounce




noun
noun: obstacle; plural noun: obstacles

a thing that blocks one's way or prevents or hinders progress.

I just dont see ordinary kitchen items (cab door, dishes, cups, coffee pot, fridge) as hindering progress. Taking screws off a cover to gain the access needed is hindrance.

But i have to ask, is the GFI mounted up high in the cabinet, like most people would need a ladder to reach it? If you need a ladder than I would say the definition of obstacle applies, even if the cabinet had no doors and nothing in it.
 

charlie b

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Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
The GFCI receptacle must be "installed in a readily accessible location" per 210.8.
Not quite. It is the GFCI mechanism (i.e., the "interrupter") that must be readily accessible. A GFCI breaker that serves a receptacle inside a cabinet would satisfy that requirement.

 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
The GFCI receptacle must be "installed in a readily accessible location" per 210.8.

Not quite. It is the GFCI mechanism (i.e., the "interrupter") that must be readily accessible. A GFCI breaker that serves a receptacle inside a cabinet would satisfy that requirement.
First Charlie, I take your actual point that a receptacle outlet (defined) could be protected by upstream GFCI of either the breaker, receptacle or dead-front device type. You are correct.

However, I used the two-word term "GFCI receptacle", which is not defined in Article 100, but is a common trade jargon for a GFCI receptacle device containing a GFCI mechanism.

I note that you use the two-word term "GFCI breaker" to mean a breaker that contains a GFCI mechanism. Very similar.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Do all GFI types need to have no obstacles, like receptacle types and breaker types and dead-front types? I have plenty of GFI breakers in my panel, but the panel has a lock on it. Does the lock constitute a "obstacle".
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Do all GFI types need to have no obstacles, like receptacle types and breaker types and dead-front types? I have plenty of GFI breakers in my panel, but the panel has a lock on it. Does the lock constitute a "obstacle".

In my code book it states that obstacle is "other than keys".

Go to article 100 and see what your version of the code says. They do change this sort of thing on occasion.
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
I would contend that the gfci receptacle in a kitchen cabinet is more accessible to someone who needs to test or reset than if the same circuit was protected by a gfci breaker in a panel in the basement.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
In my code book it states that obstacle is "other than keys".

Go to article 100 and see what your version of the code says. They do change this sort of thing on occasion.

In this case, if I put a keyed lock on the cabinet would it then be ok?
What about if the keys are lost?

Like I mentioned, NEC verbiage is many times wonky. A locked cabinet is indeed an "obstacle" for the things behind the door, and it's the very reason why people put locks on such things, to prevent an obstacle to hands that should not be there, etc.

I would contend that the gfci receptacle in a kitchen cabinet is more accessible to someone who needs to test or reset than if the same circuit was protected by a gfci breaker in a panel in the basement.
.... but the question is around "obstacle" and not "accessible".
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
In this case, if I put a keyed lock on the cabinet would it then be ok?
What about if the keys are lost?

Like I mentioned, NEC verbiage is many times wonky. A locked cabinet is indeed an "obstacle" for the things behind the door, and it's the very reason why people put locks on such things, to prevent an obstacle to hands that should not be there, etc.


I had this exact same conversation with an inspector. A keyed lock on a cabinet is not only OK, but required by other codes in some instances. For instance, at a child care center.

As far as keys being lost, that was not the inspector's problem.

So the main service panel at that particular child care center was installed with a keyed lock.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
In this case, if I put a keyed lock on the cabinet would it then be ok?
What about if the keys are lost?

Like I mentioned, NEC verbiage is many times wonky. A locked cabinet is indeed an "obstacle" for the things behind the door, and it's the very reason why people put locks on such things, to PRESENT an obstacle to hands that should not be there, etc.


.... but the question is around "obstacle" and not "accessible".

sorry, it was meant to say PRESENT, not "prevent"
 
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