Fire rating on recessed lights in old 2 family home

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Mbuonopane

Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
Electrician
Hi all, was planning to install halo new construction LED canless recessed lights with just the new work brackets and junction boxes they come with. It’s an old small 2 family home. They are the same concept as the wafer lights that clamp into the ceiling with those ears on the back, just new construction style.
My question is, another electrician told me that they have to be fire rated? I thought that was only in multi family dwellings where the floors and tenants exceed 3. Plus, they’re obviously metal brackets and metal j boxes so they must have some fire resistance. I’m confused on why that would be flagged especially since the house is so old and was gutted, it’s not like any of the walls or ceilings in their are really fire rated anyways. Is this true?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
First question is to what level must they be rated?

Most dwellings have less than 1 hour rating on nearly everything. I believe you need 5/8 drywall both sides to get a 1 hour rating. This never happens on ceilings which is where you would be putting said lights.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Yes they are putting back Sheetrock 1/2” not changing any framing really.
Does the sheetrock have any ratings on it - usually type X is needed or it isn't even considered to have a fire rating by building/fire codes though any gypsum panel will have more fire resistance than a wood panel.
 

Mbuonopane

Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
Electrician
Not sure what type of sheet rock they are using they don’t have it on the job yet. Definitely not using gypsum and they aren’t doing and wood paneling
Does the sheetrock have any ratings on it - usually type X is needed or it isn't even considered to have a fire rating by building/fire codes though any gypsum panel will have more fire resistance than a wood panel.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Not sure what type of sheet rock they are using they don’t have it on the job yet. Definitely not using gypsum and they aren’t doing and wood paneling
Gypsum is the main component in all types of sheetrock, it has fire resistance, how much depends on details of the product.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
The only time I have run into fire rated cans is in commercial. Opened a big can of worms where the architect specified non rated cans in a fire rated ceiling. Ended up getting fire rated “flower pots” to put over the cans. Ceiling was over three inches thick! 3/4” tongue and grove, with 3/4” furring strips with two layers of 5/8” fire rock. Needless to say, the trims were a bear to put on. The housing were non adjustable, set for 1/2” rock.
 

Beaches EE

Senior Member
Location
NE Florida
Occupation
Electrical Engineer / Facilities Manager
If standard 1/2" sheet rock will be used on the ceilings then it will have about a 1/2 hour fire rating. True fire rated sheet rock will have Type X or newer Type C on it. The cans shouldn't matter in this case, but check with the fire inspector.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
If standard 1/2" sheet rock will be used on the ceilings then it will have about a 1/2 hour fire rating. True fire rated sheet rock will have Type X or newer Type C on it. The cans shouldn't matter in this case, but check with the fire inspector.
IIRC, you can get a fire rating with single layers of the "X" gyp, but you can get 1 hour with double 5/8" on both sides of the stud and the seams staggered.
 

sw_ross

Senior Member
Location
NoDak
These aren't actual recessed cans right?
Sounds like you're using a metal bracket hanger type of box (4"?) and installing the LED downlights that resemble can lights?

If so, I don't see how the install is any different than any other surface mount fixture installed everyday everywhere...?
Those fixtures don't have to be IC rated.


2-MONTH OLD THREAD...
 
Last edited:

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Yes they are putting back Sheetrock 1/2” not changing any framing really.
The fixtures would need a fire rating if you're making penetrations in a fire rate ceiling. Sounds like this is not going to be a fire rated ceiling between the two levels. The fire rating requirement would come from the building code.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
These aren't actual recessed cans right?
Sounds like you're using a metal bracket hanger type of box (4"?) and installing the LED downlights that resemble can lights?

If so, I don't see how the install is any different than any other surface mount fixture installed everyday everywhere...?
Those fixtures don't have to be IC rated.


2-MONTH OLD THREAD...
What I see described is "canless lights" that are becoming more popular but being installed in a metal "rough in frame" which many do have as an option. This is just a frame with correct size opening that the electrician installs at rough in and the drywallers need to make a cutout for as they would have on traditional cans. Then when electrician comes back he just wires in his box, or even has it prewired and just has to connect the output cable and snap the light in the hole, and hope the drywallers made a close fit to the bracket.

If you don't use the bracket, then most likely the electrician is making a cutout in the finished ceiling at trim time, and hoping he has wires at the cutout location.
 
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