Federal Pacific breaker panel

[Fmkehoe]

I was just cruising through the forum and read something about Federal Pacific breaker’s and panels. And I search some more and saw a lot of negative about them. I have a 200 amp federal Pacific panel in my house installed in 1966, never a problem. Am I waiting for a problem?

 

[infinity]

IMO the fact that it's from 1966 is as much of an issue as it being a FPE panel. There are places where insurance companies will not insure a home that has an active FPE panels. Back when I was doing residential work I tore out many of these panels due to Hi reports. If this were in my home I would replace it.

 

[480sparky]

The issue, as I understand it, is FPE breakers failed a UL inspection. They did not correct the issue, so UL pulled their listing. But FPE continued to produce breakers with the UL logo. So there's a chance (slim at best, but a chance nonetheless) that you've got breakers that won't open when they're supposed to.

So if it were me, I'd make plans to replace the panel.

 

[infinity]

I don't think that they ever lost their listing.

 

[Coppersmith]

You have a panel with 52 year old breakers (useful life 40 years) in a notoriously fire-prone panel. You be the judge.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

I agree with replacing the FPE Panel.

In my 36 years in the trade I have run across many FPE residential grade panels (plug in style) and have never seen one that had shown any signs of burning up I have seen failed breakers. I have seen for the most part every other manufacturer's panel fail at one time or another.

Of course I do laugh when someone mentions they never had an issue with an FPE breaker (well they are known for not tripping / opening on over load or ground fault).

 

[mbrooke]

Replace. If you ever drill one open you will ask yourself what were they thinking.

 

[480sparky]

I don't think that they ever lost their listing.

Bottom of page 7.

"..... UL’s delisting of most of the FPE breaker line in about 1980.....

/

 

[Coppersmith]

The top part of page 8 is interesting. It shows a large percentage of the breakers tested in 2017 failed to trip when subjected to overcurrent of 135%.

 

[mbrooke]

The top part of page 8 is interesting. It shows a large percentage of the breakers tested in 2017 failed to trip when subjected to overcurrent of 135%.

Mentions the Siemens/Murray line. Not ideal, speaks poorly about the manufacturing, but overall I wouldn't loose sleep provided they trip above 200%. In wall wiring has enough of a safety factor built in and will tolerate moderate overloading well. Think of all the fuse boxes with 30amp screw-ins and #14 60*C cloth wire. The real danger is jamming. 250amps will make for a long and powerful cigarette lighter...

 

[Russs57]

I have no experience with their residential line.

I have worked at two hospitals that had FPE gear. One had a lot of smaller 225 amp panels. At that hospital FPE supplied replacement breakers with instructions. They paid us well for our labor to change them. This would have been in the late 70's. IIRC replacement breakers were Westinghouse and all we had to do was drill and tap a couple of holes that physically secured the breakers in place (opposite bus bar side). Quick and painless.

The other hospital had FPE mainly for some of the larger switch gear. I arrived there in 1983 and have no idea if FPE contacted them before. They had only a few FPE panels under 400 amps and in 120/208. Breakers were current injected and tested on a 3 year rotating interval. Only recurring problem I noticed was a tendency to fail megger testing between phases on 3 phase breakers. Taking one apart it was easy to see why. This problem might not have occurred in a less humid/salt air environment. The overall gear and bus bars were well built and it would have been easy to retrofit to a different breaker. The gear dated from the late 70's and was just retired last year. Some of the smaller panels are still in service. Ditto on a couple of MCC's.

So in my experience, quality panel with certain series of breakers that have problems. Replacement parts can be difficult and costly. That alone is enough to justify replacement.

Not really relevant but I thought I'd share my hands on experience over the last 40 years.

 

[mbrooke]

Still worth sharing your knowledge. The commercial line wasn't as bad, their QMQB and fuse panels were good and ironically their transformers were the best by far. Go figure :blink: Unless I am thinking of a different FPE making the trafos.

 

[norcal]

Bottom of page 7.

They seem to have their own agenda, but it's the internet, it has to be true.

 

[mbrooke]

They seem to have their own agenda, but it's the internet, it has to be true.

I'll say it again- drill one open.

 

[goldstar]

This is a reprint of an article in EC Magazine from 2015 by David Shapiro explaining the reason why insurance companies want FPE breakers and panels removed from houses :

http://www.pceca.net/images/stories/the_whistleblower_fpe_fraud.pdf

I had an FPE panel in my house for 20+ years and the breakers tripped regularly when overloaded. However, I'd be the first to say that they weren't exactly "quick-open" breakers by a long shot.:happysad:

 

[Fmkehoe]

Thank you all for your replies and advice. I’ll get on replacing right away.

 

[zog]

I have worked at two hospitals that had FPE gear. One had a lot of smaller 225 amp panels. At that hospital FPE supplied replacement breakers with instructions. They paid us well for our labor to change them. This would have been in the late 70's. IIRC replacement breakers were Westinghouse and all we had to do was drill and tap a couple of holes that physically secured the breakers in place (opposite bus bar side). Quick and painless.

.

Should not need to drill and tap anything. There are hardware kits available for mounting Westinghouse breakers in FPE panels

 

[kwired]

I'll say it again- drill one open.

More fun to open them with a hammer.

 

[mbrooke]

This is a reprint of an article in EC Magazine from 2015 by David Shapiro explaining the reason why insurance companies want FPE breakers and panels removed from houses :

http://www.pceca.net/images/stories/the_whistleblower_fpe_fraud.pdf

I had an FPE panel in my house for 20+ years and the breakers tripped regularly when overloaded. However, I'd be the first to say that they weren't exactly "quick-open" breakers by a long shot.:happysad:

I'd copy and paste this into the forum. In case the link gets lost.

I heard the stuff described there and then some way before. Supposedly FPE had a large electromagnet under one of the testing stations to get them to trip- guessing its the shunt trip that paper refers to- but only FPE really knew. I think whats holding back a recall is that people refuse to believe something like this could happen for so long on such a scale.

 

[mbrooke]

More fun to open them with a hammer.

I wish more electricians would donate these to testing. Tried to get a whole stash a in 2009 from an electrician who was throwing them out to do my own testing, refused to give them to me because he thought I would end up installing them in homes :rant::rant: