Extending 12/2 Romex

[retirede]

A wall wart is a load that plugs into a receptacle outlet and uses electricity. An adapter or plug strip is an extension of an outlet that provides a place forr a load to plug in to.

2 different things.

Jap>

They’re both adapters, one active, the other passive.

 

[kwired]

Do you presume the same if the wire is undersized?

sort of, yes. Can and does happen particularly with art 430 and 440 applications. 12 AWG on a 40 amp breaker can get people's attention but is an acceptable combination with right circumstances.

 

[kwired]

True, but, I would think most explosions would occur when those who don't smell so well strike a match to find the leak only to ignite the oxygen rich gas that has escaped and accumulated on the outside of the pipe.

Jap>

another thing to consider, small leak and a lot of line to purge the air out of - might take a while before the gas starts leaking out. So you might not actually "detect" the leak.

 

[kwired]

I talked to an old school plumber, probably 30 years ago that said as you mentioned they'd test for leaks with a match, when I challenged that method he calmly said no .. its true, stating the pressure wont allow the flame inside the pipe be sides he continued to say there is no oxygen in the gas line which makes it impossible for an explosion. I said ... OK....

I'd still think soapy water is a better choice. I don't mess with gas lines personally.

That is how they make welded taps and other repairs to pressurized lines - they light the gas before welding. when flame goes out during welding you know you've got it sealed. there is no oxygen inside the pipe so it won't burn inside. Exactly how burners in the appliances work as well. Gas pushed through a orifice then usually goes through something to mix with the ambient air before you get to the area where the flame is intended to be.

 

[kwired]

I was just curious seeing as how if the existing 50 amp receptacle was installed prior to the new GFI rule for 240v receptacles, and, one was to use the new adapter that plugs into that outlet to reduce it to 120v for the new gas stove, the new outlet would not be GFI protected either.

The existing 50 amp receptacle would fall under the "existing conditions" rule since it was installed prior to the new rule.

If GFI protection was required for the new 120v outlet, the existing 2p 50a breaker feeding the existing 50 amp outlet would have to be changed out to a GFI if you were going to use the adapter since you've altered the circuit would it not?

JAP>

GFCI on the 120/240 range receptacle (2020 NEC) would only be required (in most kitchens) if the receptacle is within 6 feet of a sink. Though it would also apply to a range in a basement, garage or other areas mentioned in 210.8 whether it is in a kitchen or not.

 

[kwired]

I believe it does.

This is not like plugging in a plug strip where you haven't changed what is feeding it.

If you plug a plug strip into a standard outlet the plug strip is still standard outlets.
A plug strip plugged into a gfi protected outlet is still a gfi protected plug strip.

If you physically change a 50 amp outlet to a 120v outlet you change the receptacle and the breaker feeding it.

The result of installing the "adapter" is just that.

The resulting outlet is nothing as it was before.

You've initiated a tap rule, changed the aspect of the outlet, and, put an overcurrent device in a place that's not readily accessible.

JAP>

It is an aux overcurrent device and likely not even listed as a branch circuit device.

 

[kwired]

That's not all you do unless you leave it protected at 50 amps.

If you are called to do this , you would physically change the receptacle out, and, you also change out the breaker in the panel to a 15 or 20 amp OCPD to make it as it should be,or, you would use the adapter.

You are not actually creating a new outlet, but, you are altering an existing outled.

If the location of the receptacle required GFI protection at that time you would also have to install gfi protection in addition to changing out he receptacle or installing the adapter.

All things the average consumer wouldn't know, especially those who don't know that the adapter doesn't change electricity to gas.

Just sayin.

JAP>

By that logic, you’ve created a new outlet when you plug in a wall wart.

Either case you have not changed the premises wiring.

 

[retirede]

Either case you have not changed the premises wiring.

That’s the point I was trying to make.

 

[jap]

True, but, most adapters or plug strips don't create a code violation when the average consumer plugs them in.


50a 120/240v range receptacles have not been required to be GFI protected until as of late.
120v receptacles in a kitchen within 6' of a sink were required GFI protection since 1987 I believe.

If I replace an electric range with another electric range I'm not required to upgrade my 50 amp receptacle to a GFI since the receptacle was there prior to the rule and I haven't changed anything. Even if it is within 6' of the sink.

Now, if I change the 240v range to a 120v receptacle by use of an adapter from 240 o 120v, and, that existing 50 amp recept is in a place where GFI protection is required, have I not blatenly violated the rule by not using the outlet for what it was originally intended for?

Or am I looking at this all wrong?

JAP>

 

[kwired]

True, but, most adapters or plug strips don't create a code violation when the average consumer plugs them in.


50a 120/240v range receptacles have not been required to be GFI protected until as of late.
120v receptacles in a kitchen within 6' of a sink were required GFI protection since 1987 I believe.

If I replace an electric range with another electric range I'm not required to upgrade my 50 amp receptacle to a GFI since the receptacle was there prior to the rule and I haven't changed anything. Even if it is within 6' of the sink.

Now, if I change the 240v range to a 120v receptacle by use of an adapter from 240 o 120v, and, that existing 50 amp recept is in a place where GFI protection is required, have I not blatenly violated the rule by not using the outlet for what it was originally intended for?

Or am I looking at this all wrong?

JAP>

You did not change premises wiring. Unplug your adapter and things are exactly like they were before.

Some old electric ranges had receptacles on the control panel area, with fuses somewhere within the appliance. Those don't provide any more or less GFCI protection than the adapter in question here if this appliance were in a place where GFCI protection is otherwise required.

Was mentioned the adapter is also listed for such use.

Do you use GFCI adapter sets when doing construction (even a simple 1 hour job) where plugging into existing receptacle for some equipment you are using. NEC does require GFCI for temporary power in these situations, though you are not changing premises wiring OSHA kind of still wants you to at least use a GFCI adapter of some sort.

 

[jap]

You did not change premises wiring. Unplug your adapter and things are exactly like they were before.

Some old electric ranges had receptacles on the control panel area, with fuses somewhere within the appliance. Those don't provide any more or less GFCI protection than the adapter in question here if this appliance were in a place where GFCI protection is otherwise required.

Was mentioned the adapter is also listed for such use.

Do you use GFCI adapter sets when doing construction (even a simple 1 hour job) where plugging into existing receptacle for some equipment you are using. NEC does require GFCI for temporary power in these situations, though you are not changing premises wiring OSHA kind of still wants you to at least use a GFCI adapter of some sort.

Yes, when you unplug the adapter things are exactly like they were before because the adapter is not in play anymore.....

and yes, I actually do use an adaptive cord just for that actually.

JAP>

 

[Alexis Enrique]

Funny, I just did the same thing three days ago putting a #6 on a 20 amp breaker for someone changing an electric range to gas.

Roger

We did the same, then at the time of the house was for sale the home inspector said it was incorrect, we explained, but he couldn't understand it, what you gonna do? It was a very short run, so we change the wire to help the seller (one of my GC's). It was easy and cheaper than teach the home inspector.

 

[kwired]

We did the same, then at the time of the house was for sale the home inspector said it was incorrect, we explained, but he couldn't understand it, what you gonna do? It was a very short run, so we change the wire to help the seller (one of my GC's). It was easy and cheaper than teach the home inspector.

Easy money, write a letter explaining why HI was wrong and cite code that supports your opinion. Charge them only 50-75% what the work would have cost to perform.

 

[jap]

You did not change premises wiring. Unplug your adapter and things are exactly like they were before.

Some old electric ranges had receptacles on the control panel area, with fuses somewhere within the appliance. Those don't provide any more or less GFCI protection than the adapter in question here if this appliance were in a place where GFCI protection is otherwise required.

Was mentioned the adapter is also listed for such use.

Do you use GFCI adapter sets when doing construction (even a simple 1 hour job) where plugging into existing receptacle for some equipment you are using. NEC does require GFCI for temporary power in these situations, though you are not changing premises wiring OSHA kind of still wants you to at least use a GFCI adapter of some sort.

But that was back then, and, those outlets were part of the appliance.

You didn't have to install an adapter on the structured wiring outlet to make the 120v outlets on the range top work.

Oh well,,,,,,

JAP>

 

[roger]

We did the same, then at the time of the house was for sale the home inspector said it was incorrect, we explained, but he couldn't understand it, what you gonna do? It was a very short run, so we change the wire to help the seller (one of my GC's). It was easy and cheaper than teach the home inspector.

I always explained that I was the licensed Electrical Contractor and the HI is incorrect but if they didn't mind paying me I would change it no matter how unnecessary it might be.

Roger

 

[jap]

Did you all actually put a #6 on a 20 amp breaker,,,,,

If the lugs on the 1p 20a breaker are suitable for #6 you're good on that end, but, if the screw terminals on the 120v receptacle outlet are not sized for #6, which I doubt they are, and, you didn't reduce the wire size at the receptacle end,better look out,,, the HI may have you,,,,,

JAP>

 

[kwired]

But that was back then, and, those outlets were part of the appliance.

You didn't have to install an adapter on the structured wiring outlet to make the 120v outlets on the range top work.

Oh well,,,,,,

JAP>

and neither the adapter or the appliance are part of the premises wiring - and not covered by NEC.

 

[kwired]

Did you all actually put a #6 on a 20 amp breaker,,,,,

If the lugs on the 1p 20a breaker are suitable for #6 you're good on that end, but, if the screw terminals on the 120v receptacle outlet are not sized for #6, which I doubt they are, and, you didn't reduce the wire size at the receptacle end,better look out,,, the HI may have you,,,,,

JAP>

Not aware of any "miniature breakers" 30 amp and less that will accept #6 conductor. Something like I-Line and other industrial breakers often can be that large.

 

[jap]

Not aware of any "miniature breakers" 30 amp and less that will accept #6 conductor. Something like I-Line and other industrial breakers often can be that large.

Sure they will,,,

Even down to a 15 amp on some.

JAP>

 

[roger]

Did you all actually put a #6 on a 20 amp breaker,,,,,

If the lugs on the 1p 20a breaker are suitable for #6 you're good on that end, but, if the screw terminals on the 120v receptacle outlet are not sized for #6, which I doubt they are, and, you didn't reduce the wire size at the receptacle end,better look out,,, the HI may have you,,,,,

JAP>

Well, I didn't go into detail but yes, I spliced a piece of 12 onto the ungrounded conductor.

Roger