e.m.t. for support

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big phil

Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

the e.m.t. is not part of an electrical system. The thickness of the e.m.t. is more than the required thickness of steel to be used for fixture support.
 

websparky

Senior Member
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Re: e.m.t. for support

Phil,

Rather than the old game of "20 questions".......... why not give us more information so we may be able to see the whole picture you are asking about!
 

big phil

Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

what do you think about using cut pieces of e.m.t. for light fixture support? it is not part of an electrical system,just steel braces used to support fixtures.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: e.m.t. for support

We do this often to support fluorescent strip fixtures in steel truss buildings.

A length of EMT stuck up on top of the truss in the decking corrugations.

Drop down from that with jack chain to the fixtures.
 

big phil

Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

we have done this in several self storage units with the same kind of truss systems. And I have seen it done on other job sites as well. But in the area we are working in the inspector is not accepting it. Do you think there is a code violation here?
 

ryan_618

Senior Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

I see this done a lot for supporting can lights in commercial. A lot of them no longer come with support harware, and I see 2' lengths of EMT supporting them all the time. I wouldn't dream of red-tagging it.

What code section does your inspector cite?
 

big phil

Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

358.12(5) I feel that what we have done is acceptable, and I have seen it done and passed on several jobs. Not only for the company i currently work for but with previous employers also. I have a building done on the same job site done the same exact way and passed by another inspector but one of my other buildings was turned down by a different inspector.
 

drg

Senior Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

I could see how 358.12(5)would apply when conductors are inside the EMT and it is part of a electrical system,........ but using 1/2" EMT sections for support braces on a tile grid to hold up some cans and "getting rejected" is a little silly.

I think the inspector is wrong and using this part of the code in a way most would not.

This will not cause any danger and is not a safety issue either.

John
:)
 

big john

Senior Member
Location
Portland, ME
Re: e.m.t. for support

Anyone know what the CMP was thinking with 358.12(5)? I mean, if they don't think that EMT is structurally solid enough to support light fixtures, then what difference does it make if the conduit is being used as a raceway or not? A failure in either case could lead to an unsafe condition.

I read that article as "EMT should not be used as structural support for lights." Seems pretty straight forward.

-John
 

drg

Senior Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

I disagree, and say that this article was not meant to be used this way.

John :)
 

pierre

Senior Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

When I first read 358.12(5) I was thinking of EMT with conductors installed. As I think a little further, I know that raceways as per 300.11(B), and 410.16(F)- for fittings are not to support other items unless listed as identified for the purpose.

I have myself used the EMT as support, but is this inspector so far off the mark? I can see how he interprets this, although I am not too sure if I agree - I am on the fence with this one.

Pierre
 

big john

Senior Member
Location
Portland, ME
Re: e.m.t. for support

Pierre,

In thinking about it more, I think you've touched on why 358.12(5) may exist: It's not because the EMT itself may be unsound, but because the mechanisms used to attach it to the boxes/fixtures may not be capable of supporting the weight imposed. If installed as a complete raceway, you would almost always have at least one support for every piece of EMT, so the couplings and connectors would never be bearing the total weight. Not so in this case.

If that is the logic the CMP used, then it doesn't make sense to cite someone for using it as supports from, as Iwire mentioned, truss to truss (or a similar design where connectors and couplings aren't integrally involved). However, since none of this is specifically clarified, I think an inspector would be within his/her rights to follow the letter of the law and enforce 358.12(5) as it is written.

This is why I'm curious about what the CMP was thinking.

-John

[ March 22, 2004, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: big john ]
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: e.m.t. for support

Reading 358.12(5) it looks like it does not leave any leeway on this. :)

We use scrap empty EMT to support commercial high hats, the 1/2" EMT fits perfectly in the brackets on the sides of the fixtures.

We also on occasion have used EMT like this.

1013.jpg



Lightweight Trapeze
 

websparky

Senior Member
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Re: e.m.t. for support

Tell the inspector he is mistaken.

300.1 Scope.
(A) All Wiring Installations. This article covers wiring methods for all wiring installations unless modified by other articles.
When EMT is used as something other than a wiring method, all bets are off!

410.15 Supports.
(A) General. Luminaires (fixtures) and lampholders shall be securely supported. A luminaire (fixture) that weighs more than 3 kg (6 lb) or exceeds 400 mm (16 in.) in any dimension shall not be supported by the screw shell of a lampholder.
If your fixtures are securely supported, you have satisfied code.
 

big phil

Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

Big John, the e.m.t. is straped to the truss using 2-hole e.m.t. straps there is no way that the e.m.t. itself can actually move itself. By using the 2-hole straps it tightens up around the e.m.t. very nicely. You can actually take a good grip on the fixtures themselves and pull on them and they will not give.I like what Websparky said "If your fixtures are securely supported, you have satisfied code."
 

big phil

Member
Re: e.m.t. for support

Hey Guys, We had the head inspector come out to the job site and evaluate the way our work was done and he over ruled the inspector that turned us down. Giving us the permission to finish the job the way we are doing things. He said there was nothing wrong with the way we are doing our work.
 
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