Dry bar in basement

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

GLSA

Member
Location
Ut
Does a dry bar in a basement require 2 small appliance BC's. Similar area in 210.52 is throwing me off.
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
210.11 Branch Circuits Required.
(C) Dwelling Units.
(1) Small-Appliance Branch Circuits. In addition to the
number of branch circuits required by other parts of this
section, two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits
shall be provided for all receptacle outlets specified by
210.52(B).
Click to expand...

210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets.
(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast
room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the
two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits
required by 210.11(C)(1)
Click to expand...
I don't see how a dry bar qualifies as a "kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area".

In the first place, it is not a room at all but just part of a room.
 
G

GLSA

Member
Location
Ut
petersonra said:
Does a dry bar meet the requirements of any of the places that require two small appliance branch circuits?
Click to expand...

I don't know because dry bar is not defined and a similar area could be interpreted differently. You could have small appliances on a dry bar so I don't know the intention with similar areas
 
P

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
GLSA said:
I don't know because dry bar is not defined and a similar area could be interpreted differently. You could have small appliances on a dry bar so I don't know the intention with similar areas
Click to expand...
you could have small appliances in your garage too. that does not mean the code requires two SA BCs in your garage.

they could certainly turn out to be useful though.
 
N

Nuber

State Certified Practitioner of Electrical Arts
Location
Colorado
Occupation
Master Electrician
GLSA said:
Does a dry bar in a basement require 2 small appliance BC's. Similar area in 210.52 is throwing me off.
Click to expand...

A kitchen is defined, but "similar areas" is not.
  • Can you not make a drink with the stuff in the fridge on the kitchen counter with that blender? Sure you can.
  • Can you make a drink with that stuff in the mini-fridge on the mini-counter in that the basement blender is on? Sure you can.
Similar, are they not? I think you need to have the two circuits. I have had inspectors require this based on that same reasoning. Overkill - probably. Would I have bid for it? Yup, unless the customer didn't want it and I would point out the pitfalls and put it in the contract.

Your out if you want to argue - if your dry bar is not a room unto itself. As pointed out every other item in 210.52(C) is a room. An area within a room is no longer similar to the other rooms is the root argument.

OR

If you really want to be creative, there is nothing in the code that prevents the same two circuits from the kitchen feeding your dry bar... Now is there?
 
R

rc/retired

Senior Member
Location
Bellvue, Colorado
Occupation
Master Electrician/Inspector retired
Nuber said:
A kitchen is defined, but "similar areas" is not.
  • Can you not make a drink with the stuff in the fridge on the kitchen counter with that blender? Sure you can.
  • Can you make a drink with that stuff in the mini-fridge on the mini-counter in that the basement blender is on? Sure you can.
Similar, are they not? I think you need to have the two circuits. I have had inspectors require this based on that same reasoning. Overkill - probably. Would I have bid for it? Yup, unless the customer didn't want it and I would point out the pitfalls and put it in the contract.

Your out if you want to argue - if your dry bar is not a room unto itself. As pointed out every other item in 210.52(C) is a room. An area within a room is no longer similar to the other rooms is the root argument.

OR

If you really want to be creative, there is nothing in the code that prevents the same two circuits from the kitchen feeding your dry bar... Now is there?
Click to expand...
Can I make a drink in my bathroom? Sure I can
Can I make a drink in my bedroom? Sure I can
Do I need 2 SABC's in those rooms or similar areas? No, I don't.
As an inspector in Colorado I would never nor have I ever required 2 SABC's at any wet bar or dry bar.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top