Does kitchen peninsula counts as a wall?

[Mr.Y]

Found this picture and got a little confused


They're showing receptacle at the bottom of the kitchen peninsula as required since the peninsula acts as a room divider
Is that actually true?
Will I need to provide a receptacle there with 10 inch overhang?

If yes, can it be a part of small appliance circuit since I can't act that area other than as a dining area.

 

[Rick 0920]

If it has a 10" overhang, NO receptacles can be installed under it. (See 210.52 (C)(3)(3). NEC Art. 210.52 (C)(2) states that you must have at least 1 receptacle within 2' of the outer end of a peninsular countertop. "Additional required receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be located as determined by the installer, designer, or building owner." This is complicated verbiage to me because when I read the word "required" it tells me that is has to be there, but when I read the words "shall be permitted" it means that you can do it, but it's not required. I think the "shall be permitted" verbiage pertains to the location of the required receptacles. You need to refer back to Art. 210.52 (C)(2)(a) where you need a receptacle for the first 9 sq. ft. and a receptacle for every additional 18 sq. ft. If the peninsula requires another receptacle, and your overhang extends more than 6" beyond its base, you would need a listed receptacle outlet assembly installed in the countertop. (See 210.52 (C)(3)(2)

 

[wwhitney]

If it has a 10" overhang, NO receptacles can be installed under it. (See 210.52 (C)(3)(3). . . . )

210.52(C)(3)(3) only prohibits 210.52(C) receptacles for serving the countertop to be installed under that overhang.

If the peninsula is serving as a room divider (likely IMO) as per 210.52(A)(2)(3), then 210.52(A) requires wall space receptacles there, and they may be installed under the overhang.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[augie47]

I'm in agreement with Post #2.
That said, generally the inspectors here will not require the "wall receptacle" if the counter top is considered to serve as a "bar top" with bar stools on the non-kitchen side.

 

[Rick 0920]

210.52(C)(3)(3) only prohibits 210.52(C) receptacles for serving the countertop to be installed under that overhang.

If the peninsula is serving as a room divider (likely IMO) as per 210.52(A)(2)(3), then 210.52(A) requires wall space receptacles there, and they may be installed under the overhang.

Cheers, Wayne

It is worded kind of weird here. It says "receptacle installed," then follows it up with "shall not be located...." I think the intent of the Code here is that if the countertop extends more than 6" beyond its base it's neither countertop or wall space. There is no exception stating otherwise. "Shall not be located" is pretty clear to me.

 

[augie47]

I think you need to take into consideration the requirements of (C)(2) are referencing receptacles that serve the countertop.
Wall receptacles would not be subject to that section,

 

[Rick 0920]

The 2023 NEC has removed everything about what is being discussed above. It says that if a receptacle is not provided, provisions shall be provided for the future installation of receptacles in island or peninsular countertops. So it would no longer be a violation if a receptacle was installed high or low if the countertop extended more than 6" beyond its support base.

 

[wwhitney]

That said, generally the inspectors here will not require the "wall receptacle" if the counter top is considered to serve as a "bar top" with bar stools on the non-kitchen side.

That seems odd, as 2020 NEC 210.52(A)(2)(3) specifically calls out as wall space "The space afforded by fixed room dividers, such as freestanding
bar'-type counters or railings".

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Rick 0920]

That seems odd, as 2020 NEC 210.52(A)(2)(3) specifically calls out as wall space "The space afforded by fixed room dividers, such as freestanding
bar'-type counters or railings".

Cheers, Wayne

Good point. But do you remember what the intent was for not putting receptacles under the countertop that extended more that 6" out? There was a large number of children eating at the bar and pulling cords of appliances, i.e. coffee makers, griddles, etc.... onto them and getting burned. I don't think your everyday housewife or accountant is going to care if the receptacle is high or low, if the cord will reach, they will use it. I do see your point in black and white. Maybe that's why in 2023 it just calls for the provisions for receptacles for island and peninsular tops. I do see that there is no change in 2023 NEC 210.52 (A)(2)(3) leading me to believe that a receptacle would be required down low as wall space would be required. But I see the hazard of doing this only increasing.

 

[Mr.Y]

I just answered my original question by re-reading whole NEC 2020 code section
The guys who created picture are wrong!
210.52 (A) (2)
(1) Any space 2 feet or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways and similar openings, fireplaces, and fixed cabinets that do not have countertops or similar work surfaces.


The receptacle shown on the picture should not be there

 

[wwhitney]

I just answered my original question by re-reading whole NEC 2020 code section
The guys who created picture are wrong!
210.52 (A) (2)
(1) Any space 2 feet or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways and similar openings, fireplaces, and fixed cabinets that do not have countertops or similar work surfaces.

I agree 210.52(A)(2)(1) doesn't require a 210.52(A) receptacle along a peninsula, as 210.52(A)(2)(1) is for spaces along walls, and the peninsula is not along a wall.

But 210.52(A)(2)(3) does require the receptacle you marked out on the picture if the peninsula is acting as a room divider.

Also, note that the bolded text in 210.52(A)(2)(1) has the following meaning: you need to install 210.52(A) receptacles along all walls, except where they are broken by doorways and similar openings, fireplaces, and fixed cabinet without countertops or work surfaces. In other words, fixed cabinets with countertops or work surfaces do not count as breaks in the wall line for 210.52(A), and so walls with fixed cabinets with countertops or work surfaces do require 210.52(A) receptacles. Presumably because you'll want to use them on the countertop or work surface.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[augie47]

If I'm not mistaken that section was added in 2017 to address cabinets that don;t have countertops excluding them as wall space

"code speak" is a different language

(posted same time as Wayne)

 

[Mr.Y]

In that case we need to measure not only the back of the peninsula, we need to measure width as well because it's not broken by doors or any other openings
Since the kitchen walls don't broken anymore by the cabinets with countertop, what's stopping us by putting receptacles on the wall behind the kitchen cabinets?

 

[wwhitney]

Since the kitchen walls don't broken anymore by the cabinets with countertop, what's stopping us by putting receptacles on the wall behind the kitchen cabinets?

Nothing, that's an oversight that is a result of the 2017 NEC change to 210.52(A)(2)(1). But nobody does that.

I have a PI planned for the 2029 NEC, see:

2029 Future PI: 210.52(C)

Currently NEC language requires both countertop receptacles and wall space receptacles along kitchen walls with base cabinets and countertops, yet surely this is not the intent, nor is anyone doing this, to my knowledge. This PI fixes this. Cheers, Wayne 210.52(C) Countertops and Work...

forums.mikeholt.com

Cheers, Wayne

 

[LarryFine]

 

[Mr.Y]

View attachment 2571364

This installation doesn't meet code
This topic is about following 210.52(A)(2) in kitchen islands and peninsulas

Did you see in your projects receptacles on islands or peninsulas mounted at regular height? Not a countertop receptacles