I have a client who is interested in installing aluminum conductor cable as opposed to copper for cost reasons, this would be for an 800A application for example. Looking for opinions(advantages/disadvantages, cost, etc.). I have never specified aluminum and could not give my client a good explanation as to why except that copper is a better conductor.
copper vs aluminum
- Thread starter Jay Pai
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Perform a forum search on this topic. This topic has been very popular as of late.
There are no significant issues to consider. This is really only a design consideration. Copper is heavier and more expensive.
There are no significant issues to consider. This is really only a design consideration. Copper is heavier and more expensive.
I agree with Bryan that it is basically a design issue. We are seeing more and more VEing that is changing large copper feeders to aluminum with substantial savings to the customer. One in particular originally consisted of 1800' of 600 MCM copper that was upwards of $12.00 ft.
Roger
Roger
kingpb
Senior Member
- Location
- SE USA as far as you can go
- Occupation
- Engineer, Registered
The main disadvantage is maintenance. Due to the softer material, aluminum expands and contracts much easier then copper. This may lead to a loosening of the connections depending on how the terminations are performed. Periodic inspection is recommended. If the load will be fairly constant for long periods of time, the expansion/contraction issue is less of a concern. The cost savings can be significant, especially on a large project.
Let's hope they don't start making aluminum romex again!
Let's hope they don't start making aluminum romex again!
Properly installed Aluminum Conductors should give many years of trouble-free service. Be sure to use terminations that are labelled as suitable for use with aluminum. Torque connections properly. A periodic inspection using an infrared device or laser thermometer to detect loose and overheated connections is good maintenance regardless of the conductor material. The POCO in our area has used nothing but aluminum conductors for many years for service drops. Very few problems. Occasionally an underground conductor is found with broken insulation which leads to the conductor corroding and turning to a powder. There would probably be similar problems with copper conductors, but the corrosion would take longer.
charlie tuna
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
jay,
if there was a problem with aluminum i don't think it would be u.l. listed nor allowed in the national electrical code for installation. for 16 years i specialized in infrared scanning electrical systems mostly on large buildings and installations. when conductors (both copper or aluminum) are properly sized and terminated with approved materials and torqued to the recommendation by the terminal's manufacturer and not overloaded beyound their design --- guess what ---- no problems! there are alot of aluminum feeders functioning everyday with no problems -- most of the bus duct manufactured today is aluminum. aluminum is becoming popular because of it's cost today ---- in the sixties, thats what gave aluminum it's start -- because there was a copper shortage due to strikes in south and central america. i worked for a contractor back then who specialized in high rise condo projects. he gave the building owner an option on aluminum sub feeds and most of them accepted the aluminum. their only concern was "is it up to code?" that was fourty years ago --- those feeders are still operating today!
if there was a problem with aluminum i don't think it would be u.l. listed nor allowed in the national electrical code for installation. for 16 years i specialized in infrared scanning electrical systems mostly on large buildings and installations. when conductors (both copper or aluminum) are properly sized and terminated with approved materials and torqued to the recommendation by the terminal's manufacturer and not overloaded beyound their design --- guess what ---- no problems! there are alot of aluminum feeders functioning everyday with no problems -- most of the bus duct manufactured today is aluminum. aluminum is becoming popular because of it's cost today ---- in the sixties, thats what gave aluminum it's start -- because there was a copper shortage due to strikes in south and central america. i worked for a contractor back then who specialized in high rise condo projects. he gave the building owner an option on aluminum sub feeds and most of them accepted the aluminum. their only concern was "is it up to code?" that was fourty years ago --- those feeders are still operating today!
rick hart
Senior Member
- Location
- Dallas Texas
Like anything else, the experience of the individual doing the install has more to do with the end result than the material used. Aluminum has a bad reputation for a long time now and the industry moved away from using it. Therefore, there are fewer electricians with a lot of experience installing it properly.
Properly installed, aluminum is arguably as good as copper.
Improperly installed, it is much less forgiving than copper.
It will save a boat load of money on the front end.
Properly installed, aluminum is arguably as good as copper.
Improperly installed, it is much less forgiving than copper.
It will save a boat load of money on the front end.
charlie tuna
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
jay,
i am not up to date on today's copper prices but i know it has really jumped. in the sixties, when many jobs didn't have a choice (certain wire sizes were only available in aluminum) unless you wanted to stop the job!!! my old boss once told me he would break out the substituted wire costs and give the owner a ten per cent discount on the aluminum substituted materials. he was making a very good profit on this substitute!!! the building owners didn't care --- they weren't living in these condos! my own oppinion from my experiance as a certified thermographer is that there really isn't any difference in failures of terminations between copper and aluminum.
i am not up to date on today's copper prices but i know it has really jumped. in the sixties, when many jobs didn't have a choice (certain wire sizes were only available in aluminum) unless you wanted to stop the job!!! my old boss once told me he would break out the substituted wire costs and give the owner a ten per cent discount on the aluminum substituted materials. he was making a very good profit on this substitute!!! the building owners didn't care --- they weren't living in these condos! my own oppinion from my experiance as a certified thermographer is that there really isn't any difference in failures of terminations between copper and aluminum.
DGrant041
Senior Member
- Location
- Peoria, Illinois
Bring down the evil copper empire!
Bring down the evil copper empire!
I go out each week and check-out the copper prices just for my own FYI (I guess I'm geeky like that.)
Here's where to find them.
Don't ask me what the units are--I haven't been able to track them down.
As far as aluminum conductors, I'll stick with what the others have said about making absolutely 100% sure that your lugs are rated for aluminum. Does anyone have experiences (good or bad) with crimp-on lugs as opposed to mechanical fastening (screw tight) lugs?
Please note: it's 11:33 am my time. . .
Bring down the evil copper empire!
I go out each week and check-out the copper prices just for my own FYI (I guess I'm geeky like that.)
Here's where to find them.
Don't ask me what the units are--I haven't been able to track them down.
As far as aluminum conductors, I'll stick with what the others have said about making absolutely 100% sure that your lugs are rated for aluminum. Does anyone have experiences (good or bad) with crimp-on lugs as opposed to mechanical fastening (screw tight) lugs?
Please note: it's 11:33 am my time. . .
Last edited:
bdarnell
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis, IN
- Occupation
- Retired Engineer
I've said it in other threads before, but I'll say it again here - We pull in literally hundreds of thousands of feet of aluminum conductor every year, both in conduit and MC cable. I can't tell you how many feet of 750-4 AL MC we have pulled to 400 amp panelboards in warehouses, but it's substantial. We always use Mac-Adapts on every termination and have yet to experience any overheating or failures [knock on wood sound].
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