steve holt
Member
- Location
- Hawaii
Can I use the 208v color for the return on a 480v system? For example, can I use a red wire as a return when I have an orange hot?
Color Code for Returns
- Thread starter steve holt
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
What is a "return"?
To answer your question, probably not.
RE: 208 and 480 volt colors, other than for the grounded conductor (neutral), EGC (ground), ** two other color requirements that don't apply, the NEC does not specify what colors to use.
But if you have a facility with more than one nominal voltage system, IE 208 and 480, then you are to identify each ungrounded conductor by phase and line, and post that identification. So the 208 could be pink-pink-pink with a white GC, and the 480 be red-red-red with a gray GC.
That identification is all termination, splice and connections
Its best if you review 210.5 Identification of Branch Circuits
To answer your question, probably not.
RE: 208 and 480 volt colors, other than for the grounded conductor (neutral), EGC (ground), ** two other color requirements that don't apply, the NEC does not specify what colors to use.
But if you have a facility with more than one nominal voltage system, IE 208 and 480, then you are to identify each ungrounded conductor by phase and line, and post that identification. So the 208 could be pink-pink-pink with a white GC, and the 480 be red-red-red with a gray GC.
That identification is all termination, splice and connections
Its best if you review 210.5 Identification of Branch Circuits
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
What I used to say in my classes is there are four answers to a code question:
1. Code Answer
2. AHJ Answer
3. Toms Answer
4. Truck Answer
A facility may start out with the best color coding compliance and then the facility electrician does not have red wire, so orange gets installed
1. Code Answer
2. AHJ Answer
3. Toms Answer
4. Truck Answer
A facility may start out with the best color coding compliance and then the facility electrician does not have red wire, so orange gets installed
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
And if the return is a grounded conductor or neutral, see section 200.6
It would be very dangerous to use a red wire for a neutral.
It would be very dangerous to use a red wire for a neutral.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
If you mean for switch legs, then any colors (other than white/gray or green, of course) may be used.
After the traditional colors are spoken for, purple and pink are just about all that are left.
steve holt
Member
- Location
- Hawaii
Sorry, I didn't state my question clearly. If I have an orange wire from circuit 4 on a 480v system going to the line side of a light switch, can I use a red wire on the load side of the switch, that goes to the light?
rc/retired
Senior Member
- Location
- Bellvue, Colorado
- Occupation
- Master Electrician/Inspector retired
Yes
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
The issue is the rules in 210.5(C) for the identification of conductors of branch circuits where there is more than one voltage system. If there is a single voltage system in the building or structure that would be fine, but where there are two or motor voltage systems, the switch leg must be identified the same way the ungrounded conductor is...that is it must be identified by phase and voltage. Typically that would be done by adding some type of marking to the switch leg.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
That is fine if there is only a single voltage system in the building, but if there is more than one voltage system, how would that be in compliance with 210.5(C)? I don't see any exceptions to say that rule does not apply to switch legs.
Separate color coding is allowed under 210.5(C).
I use black-red-blue-white for 120/208 and brown-orange-yellow-gray for 480/277. I swap colors on switch legs, using brown-orange-yellow-white for 120/208, and black-red-blue-gray for 480/277.
It's all marked as such at the panel. The neutral tells you the voltage, and the color tells you the phase and whether it's a constant hot or there's a switch control somewhere.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
I see nothing in the code language that permits you to do that. At the switched load, you cannot look at the wiring and know what voltage you are working on. It would get a red tag from me.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Why would the color of the insulation increase the danger? You're not allowed to work on live stuff anyway without appropriate PPE so what difference could it possibly make?
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
How it is a separate color where you are using the same color on two different voltage systems?
Carultch
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
It's about keeping the circuits organized, to avoid the possibility of accidentally connecting a 120V load to the 277/480V grid. You may wire in the 120V load while working de-energized, and you would be completely safe. But when someone turns on the power, the mix-up causes a catastrophe.
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