Some time ago i was talking with a handy man in the electrical dept a hardware store he was explaining to a homeowner how to wire this ceiling fan with light kit when there are only a black, white, and bare grounding wire. He told the homeowner to connect the black hot wire to the fan motor, and the white wire to the blue hot wire to the light kit and the bare wire to the white wire coming from the fan and light. I then asked the handyman how long he had been doing that he replied along time and never had any problems. I then moved on and thought to myself that electrical is not a hobby but a profession.
ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
- Thread starter butch
- Start date
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electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
Well, at least the fan would run
Well, at least the fan would run
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
I hear that but who remembers doing service on 14/2 BX no ground but the casing.......
I hear that but who remembers doing service on 14/2 BX no ground but the casing.......
mjf
Senior Member
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
I R&Red a ceiling fan one time. Someone had previously moved the location about 2 feet. When they moved it the existing 3 wire must have been too short and they, (even worse than bootleg neutral, I believe ), used a 2 wire to lengthen the 3 wire and used the bare ground wire as a hot conductor!!
Just one scary incident that I remember- unfortunately, I'm sure you folks have many more (and scarier) experiences.
I R&Red a ceiling fan one time. Someone had previously moved the location about 2 feet. When they moved it the existing 3 wire must have been too short and they, (even worse than bootleg neutral, I believe ), used a 2 wire to lengthen the 3 wire and used the bare ground wire as a hot conductor!!
Just one scary incident that I remember- unfortunately, I'm sure you folks have many more (and scarier) experiences.
mjf
Senior Member
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
That is pretty scary. Why did he not just tell the customer to use the hot for the light and the fan, the neutral for both and leave the bare wire for grounding.
Then he could use the pull chains to turn the lights and fan, on and off.
Joe Myers
That is pretty scary. Why did he not just tell the customer to use the hot for the light and the fan, the neutral for both and leave the bare wire for grounding.
Then he could use the pull chains to turn the lights and fan, on and off.
Joe Myers
marissa2
Senior Member
- Location
- Connecticut
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
I just replaced a ceiling fan that was connected the way that butch is talking about, but someone had taped the ground with white high temperature tape. When I told the homeowner that I would have to change it to correct this she didn't like it at first because she wanted to be able to dim the lights and adjust the fan speed from the wall controls instead of using the pull chains. But when I told her that I wouldn't do it and explained why, she said ok. The only problem is I don't know what happened after I left.
Lou
I just replaced a ceiling fan that was connected the way that butch is talking about, but someone had taped the ground with white high temperature tape. When I told the homeowner that I would have to change it to correct this she didn't like it at first because she wanted to be able to dim the lights and adjust the fan speed from the wall controls instead of using the pull chains. But when I told her that I wouldn't do it and explained why, she said ok. The only problem is I don't know what happened after I left.
Lou
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
some people fine a use for all sorts of wire :roll: ,,,like the one where the lights in the hall where dim...at first i thought maybe they used 25w bulbs,,,no, someone had installed a 3way system and for the travelers,,they just used some flat TV antenna wire....
some people fine a use for all sorts of wire :roll: ,,,like the one where the lights in the hall where dim...at first i thought maybe they used 25w bulbs,,,no, someone had installed a 3way system and for the travelers,,they just used some flat TV antenna wire....
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
"I hear that but who remembers doing service on 14/2 BX no ground but the casing......."
This type of bootleg, killed an area electricians son, and almost took out the first aid responder.
The idiot ran 14-2 BX from the first floor to second floor for 3 way lighting, and used the BX sheath for neutral.
"I hear that but who remembers doing service on 14/2 BX no ground but the casing......."
This type of bootleg, killed an area electricians son, and almost took out the first aid responder.
The idiot ran 14-2 BX from the first floor to second floor for 3 way lighting, and used the BX sheath for neutral.
stew
Senior Member
- Location
- federal way,washington
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
I hear you say professionals alludinig to us electricians but I have seen the pros make a grave error also. Ever get you propane tank filled at a station that has the pump and meter in a nice metal cage (called a PACA unit in the propane bus.). Several of the u-haul places here in Seattle have them and a local old time electrical contractor added lites to the units. All thes units were 240 v olt Single phase with no neutral and the only way to pull one would have taken lots of time to remove the seals,pull new wire and replace the seals. Customer complained that when it was wet and the pump was runninig if you touched thew metal cage you got a shock. Guess where the neutral came from?? From a nice little jumper wire attached to the metal switch box. This was done by a pro alright ! a professi9onal idiot in my mind!!!!
I hear you say professionals alludinig to us electricians but I have seen the pros make a grave error also. Ever get you propane tank filled at a station that has the pump and meter in a nice metal cage (called a PACA unit in the propane bus.). Several of the u-haul places here in Seattle have them and a local old time electrical contractor added lites to the units. All thes units were 240 v olt Single phase with no neutral and the only way to pull one would have taken lots of time to remove the seals,pull new wire and replace the seals. Customer complained that when it was wet and the pump was runninig if you touched thew metal cage you got a shock. Guess where the neutral came from?? From a nice little jumper wire attached to the metal switch box. This was done by a pro alright ! a professi9onal idiot in my mind!!!!
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
NEC 300.22 using a metal box there should of been a dedicated neutral. I wonder in a residential setting if this applies if a metal box is used at switches even though it would never heat up because of induction? And the light fan assembly only comes with one neutral...hmmm
NEC 300.22 using a metal box there should of been a dedicated neutral. I wonder in a residential setting if this applies if a metal box is used at switches even though it would never heat up because of induction? And the light fan assembly only comes with one neutral...hmmm
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
Numbers there would be no heating as all the circuit conductors would be in the same cable and through the same hole in the box but it is still a dangerous wiring method. And I'm surprised that nobody has mention the wireless kit that can use just the hot and neutral to power the receiver module you install in the fan canopy and the transmitter mounts in the switch box. Most big box stores Carry's several types of these and some can even use a separate hand held remote that can be operated from your easy chair. (Like we need another remote there. :roll: )
Numbers there would be no heating as all the circuit conductors would be in the same cable and through the same hole in the box but it is still a dangerous wiring method. And I'm surprised that nobody has mention the wireless kit that can use just the hot and neutral to power the receiver module you install in the fan canopy and the transmitter mounts in the switch box. Most big box stores Carry's several types of these and some can even use a separate hand held remote that can be operated from your easy chair. (Like we need another remote there. :roll: )
chicar
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster,Pa
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
Hey,
I have a hand held remote in my bedroom. Comes in handy when wife pass gas in the middle of the night.
Hey,
I have a hand held remote in my bedroom. Comes in handy when wife pass gas in the middle of the night.
Re: ceiling fans with light kit .The handy man fixeruper
Ive had several experiences with fans and light assembly's. like when i was rewiring a house my grandfather bought, the previous owner wired the fan, he had 12/2 nmb, but cut the ground short then, wired the nuetral wire to the white wire (that was ok) but then wired the black (power) to the black fan, blue light and the green ground to the casing, the only thing i think saved people was that the pull chain nobs were large porcelain ones.
Ive had several experiences with fans and light assembly's. like when i was rewiring a house my grandfather bought, the previous owner wired the fan, he had 12/2 nmb, but cut the ground short then, wired the nuetral wire to the white wire (that was ok) but then wired the black (power) to the black fan, blue light and the green ground to the casing, the only thing i think saved people was that the pull chain nobs were large porcelain ones.
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