Ceiling box extension ring

mull982

Senior Member
I’m installing a wood ceiling over an existing outdoor Stucco covered ceiling. I’m installing round ceiling box supported between 2 joists with the round box sitting flush with the existing ceiling. I need to extend the box down about 2” to account for the new furring strips and wood ceiling.

I am not able to readily find a round extension ring that would give me 2”. Am able to attach hexagon extension box to the round ceiling box and attach ceiling fan to box extension?

I’d appreciate any other ideas or suggestions here.

I also have similar issue with an existing round outdoor box for a spotlight fixture that I need to lower about 2”.
 

nickelec

Senior Member
Location
US
Since your building a new celling below the existing can you cut a 12x12 square around your existing box and just take the feed out and install it In a new box mounted where it needs to be

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Simple answers:

For a fan, no; an extension box is not suitable to support a fan. You need to either find a way to mount a fan box lower, or use longer versions of the correct-sized (and strength) hardware that pass through the extension ans land in either the fan box or directly into framing.

For alight fixture, either extension boxes or box extensions (or both) may be used.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
You can use a collar style extension box for a fan it just cannot be used as a means of support for the fan.
 

mull982

Senior Member
Simple answers:

For a fan, no; an extension box is not suitable to support a fan. You need to either find a way to mount a fan box lower, or use longer versions of the correct-sized (and strength) hardware that pass through the extension ans land in either the fan box or directly into framing.

For alight fixture, either extension boxes or box extensions (or both) may be used.
So If I used an extension with a long enough screw to screw fan bracket through extension directly into box that would be ok? Not sure if that's practical but something to consider I guess.

Since your building a new celling below the existing can you cut a 12x12 square around your existing box and just take the feed out and install it In a new box mounted where it needs to be

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
So my new wood ceiling will be aprox 2.5" below the original ceiling (aprox 1" furring strip, & 1" wood material). Are you saying its ok to just cut a hole in the original ceiling with no hardware etc... and just pass wiring through to a box mounted in new ceiling?

In that case I'm trying to figure out a way to secure box to the new wood ceiling seeing that the rafters are above the original ceiling, so there would be nothing but the wood ceiling itself to secure box to?
 

nickelec

Senior Member
Location
US
Yes if your concerned the new celling structure will not support your fixtures. Build down from the original rafters with some 2x stock or scraps

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
 

Jamesco

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Master Electrician
So If I used an extension with a long enough screw to screw fan bracket through extension directly into box that would be ok? Not sure if that's practical but something to consider I guess.
How is the original box mounted, supported? Does it meet code code for supporting a ceiling fan?

Like nickelec said in his post cut out a 12" X 12" area of the existing ceiling around the existing box so you can remove the box and install a new code compliant ceiling fan box.

Hopefully the branch circuit wiring is long enough. Hopefully the box is supported solidly to the ceiling wood framing and not just to a metal bar hanger, or such. If the box is mounted solidly to the wood framing just overbuild with wood to the new thickness needed. Install, support, your new ceiling fan box to that.
 

Jamesco

Senior Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Master Electrician
EDIT:

Like nickelec said in his post cut out a 12" X 12" area of the existing ceiling around the existing box so you can remove the box and install a new code compliant ceiling fan box.
Check, probe, around the existing ceiling box before you lay out and cut out the access hole. The box may be fastened to the side of the ceiling joist. In that case you start from the joist, the side the box is mounted, and layout and cut the hole on that side of the joist.
 

mull982

Senior Member
How is the original box mounted, supported? Does it meet code code for supporting a ceiling fan?

Like nickelec said in his post cut out a 12" X 12" area of the existing ceiling around the existing box so you can remove the box and install a new code compliant ceiling fan box.

Hopefully the branch circuit wiring is long enough. Hopefully the box is supported solidly to the ceiling wood framing and not just to a metal bar hanger, or such. If the box is mounted solidly to the wood framing just overbuild with wood to the new thickness needed. Install, support, your new ceiling fan box to that.
Sorry perhaps I didn't describe existing situation correctly.....There is currently not an existing box in the existing ceiling. I am adding (2) ceiling fans as part of the new wood ceiling project. Centering my fan locations on the ceiling puts the new fan locations just off the side of the existing joists (between two joists).

I also have access through the attic to the top of the ceiling and thus the joists. The challenge that I'm having is that the joists are above the existing ceiling and since the existing ceiling is outdoor and leads to my attic on top i'm trying to stop short of just ripping large holes in the existing ceiling (even though it will be covered by new wood ceiling) but can if I need to.

So there is no box currently, i'm trying to add a new box that will sit flush with the new wood ceiling (2' below existing ceiling) but haven't figured out the best way to support it. Could I just put a bar type support spanning the hole on the new wood ceiling? Not sure if this would be considered adequate for support without any joists.

Thanks for all the ideas!
 

oldsparky52

Senior Member
I don't know what the NEC says about this, but if that 2" of wood ceiling (the new one) is fastened to the joists, I would consider surfacing mounting a pancake box screwed to the wood ceiling. Just have the cable leaving the box out the back.

??
 

oldsparky52

Senior Member
Plan B, secure a piece of 5/8" strut that will be centered over your fan (strut secured to the joists through the stucco and out of the way of the furring strips). Hang a piece of all thread to a nut in the strut (make sure you have a washer and nut/locknut to discourage backout) and then secure the box to the all thread.

You install you wiring between the furring strips, and, no penetrating the existing ceiling. :)

I'm curious as to how you wind up doing this. I hope you let us know.
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
I suggest installing a (dry) 2x6 flatwise to the bottom of two joists with structural screws. Cut out the old ceiling only as necessary. Then mount your fan-rated box to the 2x6. If necessary, use some solid spacers behind the box to get the elevation you want, and use sufficiently long screws for mounting the box to get full penetration through the 2x6.

Cheers, Wayne
 

superdave02

Member
Location
South East
Occupation
Electrical Consultant
I’m installing a wood ceiling over an existing outdoor Stucco covered ceiling. I’m installing round ceiling box supported between 2 joists with the round box sitting flush with the existing ceiling. I need to extend the box down about 2” to account for the new furring strips and wood ceiling.

I am not able to readily find a round extension ring that would give me 2”. Am able to attach hexagon extension box to the round ceiling box and attach ceiling fan to box extension?

I’d appreciate any other ideas or suggestions here.

I also have similar issue with an existing round outdoor box for a spotlight fixture that I need to lower about 2”.
Don't forget Arlington makes a round plastic arc shield that is 1 1/2" deep just in case you find a metal extension that is no long enough.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
I don't see any real way of doing this without breaking a suitable sized hole that would allow you to attach this to your furring strips. Could have done that in less time than we all discussed it here...


-Hal
 

mull982

Senior Member
I suggest installing a (dry) 2x6 flatwise to the bottom of two joists with structural screws. Cut out the old ceiling only as necessary. Then mount your fan-rated box to the 2x6. If necessary, use some solid spacers behind the box to get the elevation you want, and use sufficiently long screws for mounting the box to get full penetration through the 2x6.

Cheers, Wayne
This may work except I'd have to install the 2x6 above the finished ceiling. If I install it below the finished ceiling the 2x6 will extend past the existing furring strips and wont allow for attaching the wood ceiling boards. (The 2" total included the width of the wood ceiling)

Thinking along these same lines however....I could attach the 2x6 between joists above the ceiling then drilling a hole through the 2x6 and ceiling for wire and attaching box directly to ceiling below the ceiling screwed into the 2x6 above. With the box attached directly to the ceiling the 1.5" box depth will get me close to the finished ceiling level (shimming with 1/2" plywood if needed).

Thoughts on this?
 

oldsparky52

Senior Member
This may work except I'd have to install the 2x6 above the finished ceiling. If I install it below the finished ceiling the 2x6 will extend past the existing furring strips and wont allow for attaching the wood ceiling boards. (The 2" total included the width of the wood ceiling)

Thinking along these same lines however....I could attach the 2x6 between joists above the ceiling then drilling a hole through the 2x6 and ceiling for wire and attaching box directly to ceiling below the ceiling screwed into the 2x6 above. With the box attached directly to the ceiling the 1.5" box depth will get me close to the finished ceiling level (shimming with 1/2" plywood if needed).

Thoughts on this?
If you can locate the ceiling fan directly under a joist, just attach the box to the joist through the existing stucco. You should be able to get a box to match the depth, or like you said make up the difference with a plywood spacer. You are trying to make sure you don't cut the stucco, right?
 

wwhitney

Senior Member
Location
Berkeley, CA
This may work except I'd have to install the 2x6 above the finished ceiling. If I install it below the finished ceiling the 2x6 will extend past the existing furring strips and wont allow for attaching the wood ceiling boards. (The 2" total included the width of the wood ceiling)
By "finished ceiling" you mean the existing you're covering up? I had proposed cutting it out where the 2x6 goes, so the 2x6 is touching the bottom of the joist. I'm assuming the existing ceiling is thick enough so that the 2x6 would not then interfere with the wood ceiling.

2", are you using 1-1/4" strapping and 3/4" thick wood boards, all over the existing ceiling?

Of course, you can always just add an upright block between two joists over your box location, pad down with solid material to get your box at the right elevation, and use long screws that will go through the padding and penetrate into the upright block 8D, where D is the screw diameter.

I think you said your box is close to a joist but not directly underneath. Depending on the exact placement, you could install a 2x6 vertically to the side of the joist, extending down through the existing ceiling, and attach your box to the side of that. There are fan-rated boxes meant to attach to the side of a structural member..

Cheers, Wayne
 
Top