Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

[brian kolbush]

Hello,
Back in January, I posted this same topic and received quite a number of reponses.

I want to bring you up to date as to what has transpired since then and where we stand.

I live in an area where we have a "new" municipal water authority and for the first time ever they are installing residental water meters.

The authority is installing these meters without a bonding jumper accross the meter assembly. Currently, we have been going to monthly meetings held by the authority for the past eight months and arguing the fact that this is a violation of the NEC. For the past eight months, the authority has refused to correct this situation. We do not have an AHJ in our area to help us.

Are any of you familar with The Ford Meter Box Co., Inc. Equipment? Particulary their "kornerhorn" assemblies? Well this is the area of the argument. The engineering firm for the authority refuses to accept our "fight" on this issue.

We have given the authority copies of the following NEC articles: 90.1A, 90.5, 250.52, 250.53D, 250.53D1, 250.64, 250.70, and 250.104
We have also briefly touched on the issue of sovergn immunity.

We held a public meeting where we had two electrical inspectors present at the meeting and they basically explained to the people there what the actual problem is. Our local Borough council has become involved and they are behind us with this issue, but now we are pretty much as far as we can go without seeking legal help.

This is where we need your help. We are looking for legal help. We are looking a legal firm that may be willing to help us and take this case, PRO BONO, I believe is the term; meaning fight this case and if successful have the party who is a fault pay for their lagal fees.

Please understand that we are just regular citizens like you. And we cannot afford all of the legal fees involved. This situation affects approximately 3,000 homes in our area.

If any of you would like a copy of the forum I posted back in January, and / or more importantly if you know where we can seek legal assistance as stated, please email me. My email address is: thisisme@ptd.net

If any of you have comments or questions concerning this topic, please post them. I have 8 months of information that I would be more than willing to share with you.

Got advice???????????????
Please send it!

Thanks,
Brian

 

[iwire]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Here is the original post.

Bonding jumper accross residential water meter

 

[Ed MacLaren]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

It seems to me that the first question is - Are the water pipes between the street main and the buildings metal or not?

In other words, are the water service pipes to the buildings serving as grounding electrodes?

Ed

 

[tom baker]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Where are the water meters located?
Does the metallic water pipe qualify as a grounding electrode per 250.52?
If there is not ten feet of metal pipe in contact with the earth then you do not have a grounding elctrode, and your connection is a bonding connection per 250.104

However Mike Holt has an excellent video "Open Neutrals-city of miami" where it shows fires started in houses where the meter has been pulled, by open neutrals in the house next door. the unbalanced neutral current is trying to find its way back to the source. Since the neutral is open, its going on the metallic objects in the house. the vidoe shows nails in the wall glowing red hot from voltages around 9-15 volts! this same condution could happen in your houses if the continuity in the meter was not present and if the neutral was open. What had happeded in Miami is the fire dept was having residential fires where the meter was pulled (no electricty), and did not know why.
the video is a real eye opener on the dangers of objectionable current. You can get it from Mike Holts office for $20.00, please call Sarina at 1-888-NEC-Code to order. the video is from the point of view of the fire department, so you need the following to understand what is happening.
Also order the Mike Holt 2002 Grounding and Bonding Text, there is a good explaination of current on metallic water pipes with an open neutral.

 

[brian kolbush]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

HI ED,

Yes, the pipes from the mains to the homes - (laterals) are all metal. And yes, they are serving as the main grounding electrode.

And Tom, to answer your question, the meters are located inside the homes with an electronic attachment on the outside of the home so that the authority can get monthly readings on water usage without entering.

 

[tom baker]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

if its a metallic water system as you describe, then neutral current will be on the water pipes at all times, about 5% of the neutral current typically. The daneger is if an open service neutral occurs then all the unbalance current is on the metallic water pipe, and trys to find its way back to the source. Over a long period of time this will cause a fire from pyrophoric carbonization, as shown in the "Open Neutral" video.
there is no question that a bonding jumper is required around the water meter. Get the video, make sure you understand what it is about, and then show it to those opposed to your proposal. Perhaps the fire marshall would be interested.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Considering the posts from Mr. Baker, can anyone see my concern with 250.58 and the required bonding of grounding electrodes from two separate services? Open neutral on one, current will be present on metallic parts and the gronding electrode system!

[ March 23, 2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: bphgravity ]

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Since you state that the existing water lines are metal, and serve as the grounding electrode, I would think that they should be responsible for jumping the meters.
Have they already installed some or all of the meters? If so, I don't think that I would wait-out the lengthy legal process of fighting them over the up-front cost of a few feet of copper wire and a couple of water line clamps. I would advise each homeowner to jump the meter or have an electrician jump the meter and keep receipts for any legal battle that may ensue. Safety is the first priority.

 

[karl riley]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

It seems to me there are some contradictory ideas expressed on this topic. So please take a look at these comments:

1) If the meter is inside the house, the bonding across the meter is required in order to have the pipe on the street side of the meter, which is inside the house, bonded to the service grounded conductor. In other words, if that part of the pipe gets energized, it will cause a breaker to be tripped since the current will go back to the panel and through the SE cable to the transformer.

2) Once the required bonding is done, the pipe will carry some neutral current in a parallel path back to the transformer. There seems to be confusion as to whether this is desirable or not. In normal operation, this will cause some degree of magnetic field both from the pipes and equally on the service drop, depending on how many amps. This can be objectionable.

3) In the abnormal situation of an open neutral the neutral current will follow the pipes through a neighbor's neutral to get back to the transformer. There are pros and cons:

Pro: As a backup for the neutral, the electrical service may operate indefinitely within safe voltage ranges, depending on the plumbing connections, etc.

Con: This "backup" will mask the dangerous situation of the open neutral, postponing repair. The water pipes are not an electrically designed system; it is a water system, so there are no electrical standards for the prevention of arcing and the carbonization dangers that Mike Holt's video points out. There is danger of electrocution for plumbers if anyone separates or cuts the pipe, since there will be 120V across the cut.There will be huge magnetic fields set up in the water pipes (which will also be present in the neighbor's house and his service drop) and the service drop, since all the neutral will be shunted.

We may loose sight of the fact that the grounding electrode system is mainly there to disperse lightning strikes, and the water pipe electrode can be replaced with a ground rod according to Code.
Comments?
Karl

 

[bennie]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Remove the water pipe and the current will shift to the cable TV co-ax shield.

 

[harold endean]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Just as a matter of fact. Here in NJ we are required to bond over water meters. There was a case where a town meter reader went into a house to change out an out meter. when he took it apart ther must have been current on the water pipes because he caught a big enough shock to kill him. So the state is now making all contractors to bond over all water meters (AND ALL PLASTIC WATER FILTERS) so that if there is current going to the water pipe,then it has a path to ground.

 

[Len_B]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Harold,
The local water company, serving the town in NJ where I used to live, required their employees to use portable jumper cables even if a bonding jumper was installed and visible at the meter. It was part of their work instruction for any disassembly of metallic pipes. (Seems like a good idea...)

I would advise each homeowner to jump the meter or have an electrician jump the meter and keep receipts for any legal battle that may ensue. Safety is the first priority. -- luke ww

I agree.
I would be extremely concerned with the safety of the water company employees installing the meter setters. They must be made aware of the need to securely bond both sides of the water pipe before cutting into it. Nothing should be left to chance. This is a definite electrocution hazard.

Brian,
I understand from reading other posts that Pennsylvania is only recently adopting state wide building codes and that enforcement has been and may still be a big issue in regard to your problem. If the NEC has or was not adopted as enforceable, and no other law/code exists requiring jumping of the water meter, you are probably in for good fight (I know, you are already fighting...).

I have no experience with the Ford Kornerhorn setter units, but I did notice on their web site http://www.fordmeterbox.com/pages/kornerhn.htm that Ford claims electrical bonding is achieved thru a collar and/or set screw of some type, although no claim is made as to UL listing for this purpose.

Meter couplings, pipe fittings, and electrical bonding devices are not required. Electrical bonding is achieved through the clamping/set screw mechanism of the Pack Joint nut or the gripper ring of the Grip Joint nut. --- from ford kornerhorns web site

Do I like it? No. But realistically, (I can already hear the comments--why am I saying this?) the bonding through the meter setter will probably be sufficient in most installations. If nothing else it should at least give you time to try to get new legislation passed or to get a court to enforce an existing code.

BTW, pro bono adj. short for pro bono publico, Latin for "for the public good,"...
You would seem to need a local attorney willing to represent your group of residents as a public service, as there are usually no monetary damages in a case of this type. You're probably on your own here. Are any of the residents affected by the new water company lawyers? This would seem a good place to start, although, many times lawyers in small municipalities don't want to PO city hall. Their circle of friends tends to include the local judges, mayors, etc. This can wind up being equivalent to an electrician suing the electrical inspector.

[ March 24, 2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Len_B ]

 

[karl riley]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Harold, I agree with your post and have two comments: first, bonding across that meter allows current to flow back to the transformer thru one or more neighbors service conductors; almost none of it will cross into the earth to return in that way. So it doesn't "go to ground".

Second, that individual who was electrocuted would not have been if an insulated spacer had been inserted in the pipe 10' outside the building.
So he would have been saved by either a bond or an insulated spacer. The spacer stops the currents from circulating throughout the neighborhood. But you can't require that. Homeowners have to pay a plumber.

Bennie, in my experience much less current flows out on the CATV sheath, though it may be enough to set up objectionable net currents in the service drop and the CATV cable if it runs up the outside of the house. When I have brought this to the attention of the CATV companies they have sent a man out to install a blocker, which as it was described blocks low voltage currents (such as in a neutral)but not higher. I don't know what the NEC says about this, but any bothersome voltage buildup from lightning, etc., would zip through the blocker and quickly equalize.
Karl

 

[hurk27]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Karl We had a case here where a house lost the neutral and the house didn't have a water ground at all. the current tried to go through the cable lines and because it was to great it caught the cable, and house on fire. but if the gec is connected within 5' of entering the building (Water meter house side) then the jumper on the water meter is only for fault current from a connected appliance. But if the meter is inbetween the gec and the street then the jumper is for lightning protection.

 

[brian kolbush]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Most of the water meters (about 90%) have been installed already. We have made it known that the cost to fix this problem is less than $5.00 per house. The authority paid prevailing wage for this project, as a matter of fact, the installer got two rate wages. One for the plumbing connections, and one for running the wire outside and attaching the electronic setup.

We got copies of their bid specs and the drawings actually show a bonding jumper accross the meter. But when we questioned why the jumper wasn't installed, they told us because of the meter setters they used.

Buy in all reality, their drawings show them using the pack joint assembly which says it guarantees electrical conductivity, when in fact what they actually used was the grip joint assembly which has no gaurantee.

Calls and email to ford questioning electrical conductivity for the grip joint assembly were not answered. All they kept saying was that they conducted tests up to 175 amps for two minute periods which resulted in a 2 degree increase in the metallic service line. And other tests showed a 0 to 0.1 ohm resistance.

But the project manager for the engineering firm continues to quote what is written for the pack joint assembly "gaurantees electrical conductivity", even though the pack joint assembly was not used.

I asked if this assembly could be taken apart, and the authority said yes. Then I told them that makes their assembly mechanical, and that mechanical grounds were not allowed by the code.

What happens when there is a water main break and your pipes are empty and you just happen to turn on the faucet and you get popped.

Someone is going to be seriously hurt because of this problem.

Brian

 

[dereckbc]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Brian seems to me if a bonding jumper was in the specs and contracts, that should be enforced and address your concern.

The other thing that caught my attention was your statement that test showed a 0 to .1 ohm resistance accross the meter. There is no such thing as 0 ohm's. Ask how they measured, 0 is impossible. A more believable result would have been .05 to .1 ohm's

 

[ffalcon34]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

from what ived heard about this why dont yall just drive a ground rod and forget the water pipe as a grounding electrode

 

[stamcon]

Re: Bonding jumper accross residential water meter - (revisi

Ffalcon, where 10' or more metallic water pipe is in contact with earth, it shall be bonded with the other available electrodes to form the grounding electrode system.