Bonding for above ground swimming pool install.

[Paul Allen]

Hello. We have a project where we installed a circuit to the pump motor on an above ground swimming pool. Question is, what is the latest bonding requirements for these type of installs? pool is constructed mostly of fiberglass with metal posts and top ring. does a bond ring and water bonding apply in this installation? and do you have to bond motor as you would in an above ground permanently installed pool. Its been a while since we have done one. Just want to make sure we are applying the current codes properly. Thanks in advance.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

An above ground pool has the same requirements for bonding as an inground pool if the water depth is greater than 42". What is the water depth

 

[rnatalie]

Any exposed metal must be bonded. It matters not (as a matter of fact, it is exacerbated rather than mitigated) if the shell of the pool is non-conductive. There are no exceptions to the bonding for the pool being "above ground." The rules are the same for all "permanently installed" pools.

Dennis is correct in that the water depth is indeed part of the definition of permanently installed.

 

[Paul Allen]

An above ground pool has the same requirements for bonding as an inground pool if the water depth is greater than 42". What is the water depth

Max water depth would most likely be less than 42" but I will have to verify.

 

[rnatalie]

I'd consider bonding things anyhow. You can be killed in 40" of water just as well as 50".

 

[Paul Allen]

Any exposed metal must be bonded. It matters not (as a matter of fact, it is exacerbated rather than mitigated) if the shell of the pool is non-conductive. There are no exceptions to the bonding for the pool being "above ground." The rules are the same for all "permanently installed" pools.

Dennis is correct in that the water depth is indeed part of the definition of permanently installed.

If pool is considered to be permanent, I assume #8 bond wire around the pool and bond risers every 45 degrees. and run a bond to the pump motor. Is that still the way most do it, or am I behind the times. Guess the key here is the definition of permanently installed.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You would need a #8 bare wire run 18-24" from the inside wall of the pool at a depth of 4-6" below sub grade.

You will also have to bond metal posts and metal rings as well as the water

 

[Paul Allen]

You would need a #8 bare wire run 18-24" from the inside wall of the pool at a depth of 4-6" below sub grade.

You will also have to bond metal posts and metal rings as well as the water

Thanks everyone for the assistance on this. You confirmed what I already figured.

 

[Little Bill]

If pool is considered to be permanent, I assume #8 bond wire around the pool and bond risers every 45 degrees. and run a bond to the pump motor. Is that still the way most do it, or am I behind the times. Guess the key here is the definition of permanently installed.

What do you mean when you say "bond risers every 45 degrees"?

 

[blueheels2]

Pretty sure he means everyb45 degrees of the 360 degree circle. But I’ve been wrong before.

I have one of these to do for my Buddy right now. The pool is 15-20 years old. I would rather not do it. Not real sure what lugs to use and how to attach them to the upright supports. A friend brought up the fact that copper to whatever metal makes up the pool can create a galvanic effect and corrode everything out.

 

[Mystic Pools]

Pretty sure he means everyb45 degrees of the 360 degree circle. But I’ve been wrong before.

I have one of these to do for my Buddy right now. The pool is 15-20 years old. I would rather not do it. Not real sure what lugs to use and how to attach them to the upright supports. A friend brought up the fact that copper to whatever metal makes up the pool can create a galvanic effect and corrode everything out.

Similar issue on inground vinyl pools where some pools had aluminum walls. If a galvanized repair section was needed, for say a surface skimmer, there is a possible reaction between the galvanized and the aluminum. Is it an over night reaction? Don't know. We have done this in the past for years and have yet to see an issue of rot.
Very few inground vinyl pools have aluminum walls. Most are galvanized.

I have seen the aluminum walls decay all on their own.
In the 60's aluminum surface skimmers were used on both vinyl and concrete pools. They ALL rotted out over time. Everything plastic since the 70's

 

[Paul Allen]

What do you mean when you say "bond risers every 45 degrees"?

I was referring to every 1/4 way around the pool. in other words, four points around the pool, as opposed to bonding every wall support.

 

[Paul Allen]

Ran this by my local AHJ. They said since wall supports were metal with PVC coating on them, bonding them around the pool was not required. We are to run the equpotential ring around the pool, bond the metal strip where the sides connect together, the motor and add a water bonding plate for bonding the water. All points covered here. Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond to this post!!

 

[Little Bill]

Ran this by my local AHJ. They said since wall supports were metal with PVC coating on them, bonding them around the pool was not required. We are to run the equpotential ring around the pool, bond the metal strip where the sides connect together, the motor and add a water bonding plate for bonding the water. All points covered here. Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond to this post!!

Glad you got it cleared up. If you had mentioned in your OP that the metal was coated with PVC I could have told you those wouldn't need bonding.

 

[Paul Allen]

Glad you got it cleared up. If you had mentioned in your OP that the metal was coated with PVC I could have told you those wouldn't need bonding.

We discovered it upon further inspection. It initially looked like it was a powder coated steel or aluminum.

 

[Fred B]

Glad you got it cleared up. If you had mentioned in your OP that the metal was coated with PVC I could have told you those wouldn't need bonding.

Just a question. I've actually seen the PVC coating fail, splitting open and exposing the underlying Metal, so wouldn't bonding be a good thing even if you "not required to bond"?

 

[rnatalie]

I was referring to every 1/4 way around the pool. in other words, four points around the pool, as opposed to bonding every wall support.

That would be every 1/8 of the way round the pool 360/8 = 45.

 

[Little Bill]

Just a question. I've actually seen the PVC coating fail, splitting open and exposing the underlying Metal, so wouldn't bonding be a good thing even if you "not required to bond"?

The vinyl liner would isolate you from that and also the code says shells with vinyl liners don't have to be bonded at the 4 points.

 

[ResiMan]

The vinyl liner would isolate you from that and also the code says shells with vinyl liners don't have to be bonded at the 4 points.

This may seem like splitting hairs but... 680.26(B)(1) says:

"Poured concrete, pneumatically applied or sprayed concrete, and concrete block with painted or plastered coatings shall all be considered conductive materials due to water permeability and porosity. Vinyl liners and fiberglass composite shells shall be considered to be nonconductive materials.

This led me to believe that just the vinyl material was nonconductive, but concrete block still is. Further that the vinyl is not a shell but a covering for the shell. The shell is still conductive. Then we have the coping not covered in vinyl separate from the unpaved deck area that has its own bonding.

I'd appreciate any experienced perspective on it. Don't mean to get to wordy, but I shifted from being an electrical contractor to an inspector a couple of years ago so it is now my job to split hairs!

 

[Little Bill]

This may seem like splitting hairs but... 680.26(B)(1) says:

"Poured concrete, pneumatically applied or sprayed concrete, and concrete block with painted or plastered coatings shall all be considered conductive materials due to water permeability and porosity. Vinyl liners and fiberglass composite shells shall be considered to be nonconductive materials.

This led me to believe that just the vinyl material was nonconductive, but concrete block still is. Further that the vinyl is not a shell but a covering for the shell. The shell is still conductive. Then we have the coping not covered in vinyl separate from the unpaved deck area that has its own bonding.

I'd appreciate any experienced perspective on it. Don't mean to get to wordy, but I shifted from being an electrical contractor to an inspector a couple of years ago so it is now my job to split hairs!

My post that your quoted was for an above ground pool. There is no shell in these, just the liner and vinyl walls/sections.