Bonding around outdoor hot tub

[Leespark57]

Here is the situation. Outdoor hot tub next to a deck. The deck has vertical non-metallic posts and horizontal metal rails and horizontal metal cables. There is no continuity between the rail and the cables. Looking for a way to comply with 680.26(B)(7). I realize the receptacle has to go. Thanks

 

[Rock86]

I think you're receptacle may be okay by 680.32. And if it meets the Part III of 680, that rail may not be required to be bonded. I might get back lash for saying that, but by part III you're required to comply with parts I and III. Would that rail meet 680.26(B)(7) Exception#1 if you actually fall into that category?
Back in the 2008 code, they had an issue where guys were bonding everything metal, and a guy got zapped pretty good by a metal gutters which had no connection to an electrical system until it was bonded to the pools grounding system.
Ultimately, I'd suggest discussing it with your AHJ. Pools/Spas/Hot Tubs require that extra attention to detail.

 

[kwired]

I think you're receptacle may be okay by 680.32. And if it meets the Part III of 680, that rail may not be required to be bonded. I might get back lash for saying that, but by part III you're required to comply with parts I and III. Would that rail meet 680.26(B)(7) Exception#1 if you actually fall into that category?
Back in the 2008 code, they had an issue where guys were bonding everything metal, and a guy got zapped pretty good by a metal gutters which had no connection to an electrical system until it was bonded to the pools grounding system.
Ultimately, I'd suggest discussing it with your AHJ. Pools/Spas/Hot Tubs require that extra attention to detail.

Nothing in part III applies unless this is a storable pool or spa.

The receptacle appears to be too close, would have to be a solid panel barrier to get enough distance to allow it to be there.

680.42(B) might not require bonding of the railing, there are 4 conditions that must be met, unfortunately the difference in level of the deck and where the spa is located likely doesn't comply with condition 4 unless you can get it at least 30 inches horizontally away.

 

[Leespark57]

Nothing in part III applies unless this is a storable pool or spa.

The receptacle appears to be too close, would have to be a solid panel barrier to get enough distance to allow it to be there.

680.42(B) might not require bonding of the railing, there are 4 conditions that must be met, unfortunately the difference in level of the deck and where the spa is located likely doesn't comply with condition 4 unless you can get it at least 30 inches horizontally away.

I was looking at 680.42(B) also but I think that only applies to perimeter surfaces and not specifically to metal objects around the spa. But the rule I referenced in my earlier post (680.26(B)(7) is from part II of the NEC, therefore wouldn't apply because 680.40 states "shall comply with Part I and Part IV of this article. Now I'm totally confused...

 

[kwired]

I was looking at 680.42(B) also but I think that only applies to perimeter surfaces and not specifically to metal objects around the spa. But the rule I referenced in my earlier post (680.26(B)(7) is from part II of the NEC, therefore wouldn't apply because 680.40 states "shall comply with Part I and Part IV of this article. Now I'm totally confused...

Objects within 30 inches horizontally are perimeter surfaces for application of this according to condition 4.

If the spa can be located so the metal railing is more than 30 inches away it is not a problem. If it is closer than 30 inches then the mentioned 28 inch vertical distance comes into play. So would be a problem on upper deck also if same railing were less than 30 inches away or if top of spa were at least 28 inches above the railing, which would be somewhat rare.

 

[Rock86]

Nothing in part III applies unless this is a storable pool or spa.

I was basing my evaluation on the definition of "Storable Spa/Hot tub". Without seeing the actual assembly, there is room for argument. But I agree with your information. It provides the greater protection.

 

[acrwc10]

Don’t be fooled by a piece of metal near a pool or spa must be bonded. Mike Holt did a fantastic video on neutral earth voltage, you can watch it on you tube. Metal downspouts, metal sliding door frames and the rails in the pictures you provided are not the intended items that need bonding. None of these have any connection to the earth or the electrical system, it’s like a metal locknut on plastic pipe in a plastic box, there is no hazard there. The reason for bonding around pools, ponds and similar bodies of water is the presence of stray utility neutral voltage that wants to find a lower resistance path back to the source. An isolated metal railing is not going to provide that path because it is not connected to anything that is connected to the electrical system or the earth. Go to YouTube, Mike Holt and watch the video about neutral earth voltage, with him walking around a house with a volt meter on a pole. He shows the pool voltage gradients and how dry and wet concrete react. He explains where the issue comes from and why. It’s worth watching twice.

 

[Fred B]

Don’t be fooled by a piece of metal near a pool or spa must be bonded. Mike Holt did a fantastic video on neutral earth voltage, you can watch it on you tube. Metal downspouts, metal sliding door frames and the rails in the pictures you provided are not the intended items that need bonding. None of these have any connection to the earth or the electrical system, it’s like a metal locknut on plastic pipe in a plastic box, there is no hazard there. The reason for bonding around pools, ponds and similar bodies of water is the presence of stray utility neutral voltage that wants to find a lower resistance path back to the source. An isolated metal railing is not going to provide that path because it is not connected to anything that is connected to the electrical system or the earth. Go to YouTube, Mike Holt and watch the video about neutral earth voltage, with him walking around a house with a volt meter on a pole. He shows the pool voltage gradients and how dry and wet concrete react. He explains where the issue comes from and why. It’s worth watching twice.

Correct, if the posts are all nonconductive, there is no path to earth and bonding would only create one that didn't exist. But what if person 1 in the hot tub, person 2 is at the railing holding or touching it and standing on the ground, fault in hot tub and person 1 reaches out and touches the metal railing, is there a shock hazard?
Mike also has a video that shows him in a pool that is properly bonded and they charge the pool with 120V and he experienced no ill effects or even a tingle. Uses bird on a the wire comparison.

 

[kwired]

Correct, if the posts are all nonconductive, there is no path to earth and bonding would only create one that didn't exist. But what if person 1 in the hot tub, person 2 is at the railing holding or touching it and standing on the ground, fault in hot tub and person 1 reaches out and touches the metal railing, is there a shock hazard?
Mike also has a video that shows him in a pool that is properly bonded and they charge the pool with 120V and he experienced no ill effects or even a tingle. Uses bird on a the wire comparison.

If railing is isolated it doesn't introduce a shock hazard in your example, standing on the ground potentially does though.

Required GFCI should respond if current is high enough though. The problem a GFCI won't respond to is if there is rise in voltage over earth voltage on the equipment grounding conductor, such voltage can occur even if premises wiring has no problems - it can be a problem originating on utility side of the service.