Bond wire - Fiberglass pool

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

shortcircuit2

Senior Member
Location
South of Bawstin
Sorry to steer this alittle off the perimeter bond topic, but a statement by Mark Ode in his January 2020 Electrical Contractor magazine article on voltage gradients in swimming pools states this...

Vinyl-lined and fiberglass pools are nonconductive materials. If the pool shell is nonconductive, then a copper conductive grid must be installed under the vinyl or fiberglass pool to permit the decking to be connected to the grid.

In reading the Code, it does not appear require this?
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Mark Odie is pretty sharp but I would like to see this article. I will try and find it.

Just read it.... I have no idea where he got that from unless 2020 changed. Haven't got time to check it thoroughly. Here it is

680.26 Equipotential Bonding.
680.26(A) Performance.
The equipotential bonding required by this section shall be installed to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area.
680.26(B) Bonded Parts.
The parts specified in 680.26(B)(1) through (B)(7) shall be bonded together using solid copper conductors, insulated covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG or with rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified corrosion-resistant metal. Connections to bonded parts shall be made in accordance with 250.8. An 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor provided to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area shall not be required to be extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or electrodes.
680.26(B)(1) Conductive Pool Shells.
Bonding to conductive pool shells shall be provided as specified in 680.26(B)(1)(a) or (B)(1)(b). Cast-in-place concrete, pneumatically applied or sprayed concrete, and concrete block with painted or plastered coatings shall all be considered conductive materials due to water permeability and porosity. Vinyl liners and fiberglass composite shells shall be considered to be nonconductive materials. Reconstructed pool shells shall also meet the requirements of this section.
  1. (a)
    Structural Reinforcing Steel. Unencapsulated structural reinforcing steel shall be bonded together by steel tie wires or the equivalent. Where structural reinforcing steel is encapsulated in a nonconductive compound, a copper conductor grid shall be installed in accordance with 680.26(B)(1)(b)
  2. (b)
    Copper Conductor Grid. A copper conductor grid shall be provided and shall comply with the following:
    1. (1)
      Be constructed of minimum 8 AWG bare solid copper conductors bonded to each other at all points of crossing in accordance with 250.8 or other approved means
    2. (2)
      Conform to the contour of the pool
    3. (3)
      Be arranged in a 300 mm (12 in.) by 300 mm (12 in.) network of conductors in a uniformly spaced perpendicular grid pattern with a tolerance of 100 mm (4 in.)
    4. (4)
      Be secured within or under the pool no more than 150 mm (6 in.) from the outer contour of the pool shell
680.26(B)(2) Perimeter Surfaces.
The perimeter surface to be bonded shall be considered to extend for 1 m (3 ft) horizontally beyond the inside walls of the pool and shall include unpaved surfaces and other types of paving. Perimeter surfaces separated from the pool by a permanent wall or building 1.5 m (5 ft) in height or more shall require equipotential bonding only on the pool side of the permanent wall or building. Bonding to perimeter surfaces shall be provided as specified in 680.26(B)(2)(a), (B)(2)(b), or (B)(2)(c) and shall be attached to the pool reinforcing steel or copper conductor grid at a minimum of four points uniformly spaced around the perimeter of the pool. For nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four points shall not be required.
  1. (a)
    Structural Reinforcing Steel. Structural reinforcing steel shall be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B)(1)(a).
  2. (b)
    Copper Ring. Where structural reinforcing steel is not available or is encapsulated in a nonconductive compound, a copper conductor(s) shall be utilized where the following requirements are met:
    1. (1)
      At least one minimum 8 AWG bare solid copper conductor shall be provided.
    2. (2)
      The conductors shall follow the contour of the perimeter surface.
    3. (3)
      Only listed splicing devices or exothermic welding shall be permitted.
    4. (4)
      The required conductor shall be 450 mm to 600 mm (18 in. to 24 in.) from the inside walls of the pool.
    5. (5)
      The required conductor shall be secured within or under the perimeter surface 100 mm to 150 mm (4 in. to 6 in.) below the subgrade.

  3. (c)
    Copper Grid. Where structural reinforcing steel is not available or is encapsulated in a nonconductive compound, copper grid shall be utilized where the following requirements are met:
    1. (1)
      The copper grid shall be constructed of 8 AWG solid bare copper and be arranged in accordance with 680.26(B)⁠(1)⁠(b)⁠(3).
    2. (2)
      The copper grid shall follow the contour of the perimeter surface extending 1 m (3 ft) horizontally beyond the inside walls of the pool.
    3. (3)
      Only listed splicing devices or exothermic welding shall be permitted.
    4. (4)
      The copper grid shall be secured within or under the deck or unpaved surfaces between 100 mm to 150 mm (4 in. to 6 in.) below the subgrade.
Click to expand...
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Here's the rest


680.26(B)(3) Metallic Components.
All metallic parts of the pool structure, including reinforcing metal not addressed in 680.26(B)⁠(1)(a), shall be bonded. Where reinforcing steel is encapsulated with a nonconductive compound, the reinforcing steel shall not be required to be bonded.
680.26(B)(4) Underwater Lighting.
All metal forming shells and mounting brackets of no-niche luminaires shall be bonded.
Exception: Listed low-voltage lighting systems with nonmetallic forming shells shall not require bonding.
680.26(B)(5) Metal Fittings.
All metal fittings within or attached to the pool structure shall be bonded. Isolated parts that are not over 100 mm (4 in.) in any dimension and do not penetrate into the pool structure more than 25 mm (1 in.) shall not require bonding. Metallic pool cover anchors intended for insertion in a concrete or masonry deck surface, 25 mm (1 in.) or less in any dimension and 51 mm (2 in.) or less in length, and metallic pool cover anchors intended for insertion in a wood or composite deck surface, 51 mm (2 in.) or less in any flange dimension and 51 mm (2 in.) or less in length, shall not require bonding.
680.26(B)(6) Electrical Equipment.
Metal parts of electrical equipment associated with the pool water circulating system, including pump motors and metal parts of equipment associated with pool covers, including electric motors, shall be bonded.
Exception: Metal parts of listed equipment incorporating an approved system of double insulation shall not be bonded.
  1. (a)
    Double-Insulated Water Pump Motors. Where a double-insulated water pump motor is installed under the provisions of this rule, a solid 8 AWG copper conductor of sufficient length to make a bonding connection to a replacement motor shall be extended from the swimming pool equipotential bonding means to an accessible point in the vicinity of the pool pump motor. Where there is no connection between the swimming pool equipotential bonding means and the equipment grounding system for the premises, this bonding conductor shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the motor circuit.
  2. (b)
    Pool Water Heaters. For pool water heaters rated at more than 50 amperes and having specific instructions regarding bonding and grounding, only those parts designated to be bonded shall be bonded and only those parts designated to be grounded shall be grounded.
680.26(B)(7) Fixed Metal Parts.
All fixed metal parts shall be bonded including, but not limited to, metal-sheathed cables and raceways, metal piping, metal awnings, metal fences, and metal door and window frames.
Exception No. 1: Those separated from the pool by a permanent barrier that prevents contact by a person shall not be required to be bonded.
Exception No. 2: Those greater than 1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of the pool shall not be required to be bonded.
Exception No. 3: Those greater than 3.7 m (12 ft) measured vertically above the maximum water level of the pool, or as measured vertically above any observation stands, towers, or platforms, or any diving structures, shall not be required to be bonded.
680.26(C) Pool Water.
Where none of the bonded parts are in direct connection with the pool water, the pool water shall be in direct contact with an approved corrosion-resistant conductive surface that exposes not less than 5800 mm2 (9 in.2) of surface area to the pool water at all times. The conductive surface shall be located where it is not exposed to physical damage or dislodgement during usual pool activities, and it shall be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B).
Click to expand...
 
Mystic Pools

Mystic Pools

Senior Member
Location
Park Ridge, NJ
Occupation
Swimming Pool Contractor
Dennis Alwon said:
Mark Odie is pretty sharp but I would like to see this article. I will try and find it.

Just read it.... I have no idea where he got that from unless 2020 changed. Haven't got time to check it thoroughly. Here it is

680.26 Equipotential Bonding.
680.26(A) Performance.
The equipotential bonding required by this section shall be installed to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area.
680.26(B) Bonded Parts.
The parts specified in 680.26(B)(1) through (B)(7) shall be bonded together using solid copper conductors, insulated covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG or with rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified corrosion-resistant metal. Connections to bonded parts shall be made in accordance with 250.8. An 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor provided to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area shall not be required to be extended or attached to remote panelboards, service equipment, or electrodes.
680.26(B)(1) Conductive Pool Shells.
Bonding to conductive pool shells shall be provided as specified in 680.26(B)(1)(a) or (B)(1)(b). Cast-in-place concrete, pneumatically applied or sprayed concrete, and concrete block with painted or plastered coatings shall all be considered conductive materials due to water permeability and porosity. Vinyl liners and fiberglass composite shells shall be considered to be nonconductive materials. Reconstructed pool shells shall also meet the requirements of this section.
  1. (a)
    Structural Reinforcing Steel. Unencapsulated structural reinforcing steel shall be bonded together by steel tie wires or the equivalent. Where structural reinforcing steel is encapsulated in a nonconductive compound, a copper conductor grid shall be installed in accordance with 680.26(B)(1)(b)
  2. (b)
    Copper Conductor Grid.A copper conductor grid shall be provided and shall comply with the following:
    1. (1)
      Be constructed of minimum 8 AWG bare solid copper conductors bonded to each other at all points of crossing in accordance with 250.8 or other approved means
    2. (2)
      Conform to the contour of the pool
    3. (3)
      Be arranged in a 300 mm (12 in.) by 300 mm (12 in.) network of conductors in a uniformly spaced perpendicular grid pattern with a tolerance of 100 mm (4 in.)
    4. (4)
      Be secured within or under the pool no more than 150 mm (6 in.) from the outer contour of the pool shell
Click to expand...

Wow, This is mighty interesting.
 
H

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Didn’t read everything posted, just the first post.
subgrade is the dirt before anything is put down such as concrete, pavers, asphalt, etc...
 
Mystic Pools

Mystic Pools

Senior Member
Location
Park Ridge, NJ
Occupation
Swimming Pool Contractor
This is the section I find interesting.

"Bonding to conductive pool shells shall be provided as specified in 680.26(B)(1)(a) or (B)(1)(b). Cast-in-place concrete, pneumatically applied or sprayed concrete, and concrete block with painted or plastered coatings shall all be considered conductive materials due to water permeability and porosity. Vinyl liners and fiberglass composite shells shall be considered to be nonconductive materials. Reconstructed pool shells shall also meet the requirements of this section. "

Is it fair to say a vinyl lined pool with metal walls could become conductive if there is a tear in the liner? What about the screws that secure the wet niche to the wall? There are vinyl pool kits that have composite walls-not sure where they fit in-never done one.

I know only a bit about fiberglass pools as I have no interest. I have however, installed fiberglass spas in the ground as part of a reno jobs. I purchase a specific brand that can be set in the ground. It's a blank shell we plumb up and set. It's been almost 15 years since the last install and certainly the bonding code has changed.
Some spas had a skimmer installed though the shell, secured with stainless screws making contact with the water.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top