Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

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sdbob

Senior Member
I haven't visited the site for a few weeks but got the email from Mike Holt with a heads up re. this forum.

Coincidentally, just this morning I called an impromptu meeting today with 4 of my best job foreman. The purpose of the meeting included a few subjects, one of which was my desire to see the more experienced guys TEACHING the less experienced guys more.

Are you an on-the-job teacher?

I was lucky ( well, kind of, lol). For my first year in the field I worked for an ornery old man, I mean a world class SOB at times. This guy was so demanding there were times I almost quit. I remember one time on a scissor lift; he was teaching me to bend and hang 1/2" pipe, (quickly, without wasting moves) by leaning against the side of the lift smoking a cigarette, shouting orders. "Why didn't that stick have a coupling on it before you shot it up?!" "Put the GD connectors in the box BEFORE you hang it!" ect., ect. I had had enough, and hit the "down" button on the lift controller. I quit, well; I was trying to anyways. He grabbed the controller, we fought for control of it for a few seconds, and we came to rest 1/2 way between our work elevation and the ground. For the next 20 or so minutes he taught me more than ever before.

He explained his demeanor, stemming from a submariners naval background, a rather rough life, and many years in the trade. He explained to me that he saw potential in me (I was 19 yrs. old at the time) that he hadn't seen in a kid for a while. He explained that not only was he teaching me for my benefit, but for HIS. You see, this wise old wireman wanted to feel the long-term satisfaction realized after your student becomes an accomplished electrician. 20 minutes or so later we were back up in the air running conduit.

I never forgot those 20 minutes. Sometime after his untimely death from cancer later in my career, I decided to try to always be a teacher to others like he was to me. Maybe not as harsh, but as relentless and demanding as necessary to burn good habits and long lasting knowledge into the minds of deserving apprentices.

Last week I had a foreman tell me he "taught" a new apprentice how to bend pipe. Yesterday this kid pulls up to the shop to off-load some left-over material out of the trunk of his car, and I notice a new bender in there with the little instruction booklet still stapled around the handle. I ask him, "Do you know how to use that thing?" ?Yeah?, he answered. Well, I had a few scraps of ?? EMT in the back and asked him to bend me a 10 ?? offset in one piece and a 10 ?? 90 in the other. He couldn?t do it? he didn?t have a clue. You see, the foreman that ?taught? him merely told him how to bend pipe, likely for several hours, and it didn?t sink in. My foreman never held this kid?s feet to the fire, never required him to practice, or bend anything without assistance. No bueno.

My point is this industry would be a lot better off if more journeymen took a personal interest in teaching, testing, and challenging those with less experience. Theory, motor control, ladder diagrams, the NEC? all this stuff can be taught on the job, day by day, even if all you?re doing is throwing up 2?x4? lay-ins all day. Take a break; teach a kid how to draw a ladder diagram of a start-stop, than make him draw it for you the next day. Let him go home early that Friday if he gets it right? you get the idea.

You see, we can and should all be ?Instructors?, at least to those that show an ability to retain what they?re taught and have the motivation to work hard when asked. Somebody taught me, someone taught you? pass it on.


Godspeed Bruce Kopsco, you ornery SOB,?????.? and thanks. Thanks for everything, especially not letting me win the fight for that lift controller.
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

That is a very nice story and you have provided some great advice. I actually had nearly the opposite experience in my early career which I feel produced the same result. I never had the hard-nosed foreman that micro-managed every move and screamed at the top of his lungs if your break went one minute too long. I had the opposite, I had the pushovers. Most of the foremans and supers I worked for in the first few years in the trade failed miserably at their position. They assigned the wrong tasks to the wrong people, couldn't enforce work schedules, and didn't have the guts to tell someone they were doing a bad job.

In the end I learned more from that experience then I ever could from a "good" foreman. I learned what not to do and how not to be. I learned that kindness is mistaken for weakness and that people have a natural tendency to take shortcuts and do as little as possible if not motiviated or encouraged. Sometimes its what people don't do that makes the most impact.
 

69boss302

Senior Member
Re: Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

We teach and learn everyday. Kid's wether they admit it or not, watch what we do and pick up on things. They can see if what you do work's, they just like we were, just don't want to be told what to do. They'll do something else just to prove they can be different. Sometimes you just have to let them see what works. I was a SOB submariner for quit a while myself and a Nuclear Power Instructor at a Prototype. Taught the hands on stuff instead of book stuff. I never stopped somebody from making a mistake. Just made sure they would not hurt themselves or some one else. I was going to say not damage anything either but that's not true. I have let them damage things (not severely). But the cost of a little damage is nothing compared to the experience and knowledge pluses you gain. Besides I'd rather see them damage something that didn't really sink at the prototype then be going down while there under the water and cause serious damage and more severe problems.

Also know I can pick up new things even from the kids now day's. Just because it's always been done one way, doesn't mean it can't be done another. And with the experience I have, makes it easier for me to see the danger's that may be present in the new way, and help fine tune it a little.
 
B

bthielen

Guest
Re: Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

I have found that when an opportunity arises for me to share my experience, I think I actually learn as much as the individual I'm teaching. It seems to reinforce my own understanding and build my own self-confidence. When I was going to school it seemed that the best way for me to learn, understand, and retain something was to explain it to someone else. Many times, while sharing knowledge I discover errors in my understanding.

Bob
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

The same notion of teaching applies to the young engineers as well.
Originally posted by 69boss302: I never stopped somebody from making a mistake. Just made sure they would not hurt themselves or some one else.
That is an extraordinarily effective instructional technique. It takes a great deal of patience, alertness, and the self-confidence that you can step in if there were a need to step in. You also have to realize that a little extra cost now (i.e., for having to undo a mistake) can lead to great cost savings later (i.e., when the person learns to avoid such mistakes).

I wonder if you had been one of my instructors at prototype?
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

Go ahead. Try and make me feel old. :D (A1W, Idaho Falls, 1976)
 

southernboys

Senior Member
Re: Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

awesome post kind of reminds me of the "old sobs" I came up with. Ill admit im still young in the trade but I know the direction im heading is correct because of the nononsense attitudes of guys like Joe Heber and Jim "Scruffy" Duffy
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Re: Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

A1W 1990, MARF instructor 1995-1997. I still am teaching using the same principles we used in the nuclear navy (for the most part).

The civilian world seems like most of the experienced guys in the field refuse to share knowledge with the young kids, maybe it is some wierd sense of job security.
 

69boss302

Senior Member
Re: Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

zog, I've been out since 1993. Was medically disqualified from sub's and spent about 7 years in the (SHHHH don't tell anyone) skimmer fleet. Found that even there they don't like to pass on information. Been in industrial ever since I got out. Still use the same principles as you have said. Works the best, not every time but I have found it to work the best and when I have run into someone it doesn't work with, well he hasn't lasted long anyway, and I wasn't the one that had to do anything. Good principles are almost always good. Gook ol' uncle Hieme knew what he was doing.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Re: Are you an instructor? Well, you should be...

Besides the fact that he . . . he knew what he was doing.

{Moderator's Note: Edited out text that I felt might be classified. You'll have to use your imagination, as to the meaning of the "besides" phrase.}

[ February 16, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: charlie b ]
 
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