3-Way - 4-Way Question

[Jimmy7]

I had a new customer who asked me to look at their kitchen lights in their home. They have recessed lights that are on a set of three ways with one four way in the middle. This is what I found - On one end that have just a 3-way with just a 14-3, on the other end they have a 14-3 and a feed which is a 14-2. In the middle (4-Way location) they have the two 14-3 and a 14-2 that goes to the recessed fixtures. I don’t see how this could have ever worked properly, or am I missing something?
The homeowner wanted me to do the easiest thing possible, so he decided that he didn’t need a switch at the end where the feed was. I used the black and white (Capping the red) of the three wire as the hot and neutral (Moved hot and neutral to the 4-Way location) and moved the 3-way to the 4-way location where the recessed switch leg was located. I wasn’t sure what else I could do in this situation.
I’m not sure if I explained this clearly.

 

[LarryFine]

I didn't even need to draw it out.

At feed box:
White to white
Black to 3-way common
B & R travelers

At far end box:
B & R travelers
White (re-color) to 3-way common

At middle box:
White from feed box to load white
B & R travelers to 4-way switch
White (re-color) from end box to load black

 

[curt swartz]

What they had would have worked fine if made up correctly. I have done it many time myself.

First switch (3W) - Black feed to common terminal, white from feed to white of 14/3, Black and red of 14/3 to traveler terminals of switch.

Second switch (4W) - White of 14/3 from switch 1 to white of 14/2 going to lights, black and red to traveler terminals of 4W switch. Black of 14/2 going to recessed lights to black of 14/3 going to switch 3. White and red go to traveler terminals of 4W switch.

Switch 3 (3W) - Black to common, White and red to traveler terminals.

 

[curt swartz]

Larry you beat me by a few seconds.

I switched traveler colors between switch 2 and 3 so black is common. Either way works.

 

[LarryFine]

I switched traveler colors between switch 2 and 3 so black is common. Either way works.

In the olden days before re-coloring the whites used as hots, that's how it would have been done.

I figured my explanation and consistent traveler colors would make it easier to understand.

 

[kwired]

In the olden days before re-coloring the whites used as hots, that's how it would have been done.

I figured my explanation and consistent traveler colors would make it easier to understand.

I don't look at wire colors other than for identifying which is which in a raceway or cable, then of course identification of grounded, grounding, ungrounded becomes necessary to comply with code.

What I look at in 3 way circuits is you have L1, L2, two travelers, and an outgoing L1 and possibly an outgoing L2.

OP has L1 and L2 at first switch, travelers and L2 to second switch, travelers to third switch along with outgoing L1 returning back to second switch.

All travelers need to connect to the second switch. This leaves you with L2 and the returning L1 at the second switch which you connect to the outgoing cable to the load. There's the logic, now look at colors for identifying those conductors. Not every installer will use the same color for the same thing and can still be code compliant in many cases. Really the only color requirement by code here is the neutral should be a white conductor in each segment of this that contains the neutral.

 

[James L]

The best way to make up any set of 3-way/4-way switches is to take the neutral the shortest pathway to the light(s). In this case, from the feed end, through the white to the 4-way, and to the switch leg white.

Next, the switch leg black on the shortest pathway to a 3-way. This would be through the 4-way, tied to the black to the line 3-wire end.

Then all the wires left are traveler pairs and a feed

 

[LarryFine]

And to address something that's easy to mess up with 4-way switches:

The two dark terminals connect to the travelers from one 3-way, and the two light from the other one.

I have seen the blacks on the darks and the reds on the lights many times with replacement switches.

 

[nizak]

And to address something that's easy to mess up with 4-way switches:

The two dark terminals connect to the travelers from one 3-way, and the two light from the other one.

I have seen the blacks on the darks and the reds on the lights many times with replacement switches.

Some 4 way switches list “ input” and “output”.

 

[James L]

Legrand Decorator 4-ways have no indication of which screws are for what

 

[LarryFine]

Legrand Decorator 4-ways have no indication of which screws are for what

Sometimes it's printed on the inside of the box.

 

[Little Bill]

I've had to use my meter a few times to see how a 4-way needs wiring. I have found that either the top two screws are one set or the two side screws.