2020 GFCI requirements

[don_resqcapt19]

Then who writes it? By commentary we mean enhanced content, right

Paid editorial staff of the NFPA, just like the comments in the Handbook.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Paid editorial staff of the NFPA, just like the comments in the Handbook.

Well then it isn't as useful as I thought. It would make more sense if the cmp who wrote the section to do the explaining.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Well then it isn't as useful as I thought. It would make more sense if the cmp who wrote the section to do the explaining.

They are not paid people and spend a lot of time doing the required code changes work.

 

[Rdcowart]

So since North Carolina has not adopted the 2020 code for single and two family dwellings. Meaning that they are still operating in the 2017 code. From my understanding I don’t have to install gfci protection on any 30 or 50 amp 240v receptacles located in the garage or outside for vehicle charging.

 

[Hv&Lv]

So since North Carolina has not adopted the 2020 code for single and two family dwellings. Meaning that they are still operating in the 2017 code. From my understanding I don’t have to install gfci protection on any 30 or 50 amp 240v receptacles located in the garage or outside for vehicle charging.

I thought that amendment was for the garage door receptacle up top.
I didn’t think there was a 625 exception.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

My question concerns a couple specifics. It is my understanding that any outdoor outlet has to be GFCI protected now including RV hookups.

But won't this cause plenty of issues seeing as the RV may already have GFCI's installed throughout? Or will this not be an issue?

Same goes for EV chargers, many say in the manual to not put on a GFCI breaker because they already have it internally. So does that eliminate the option of being able to have a cord and plug install if the receptacle is outdoors or in a garage?

thanks

It's my understanding the requirement for 30A and 50A RV outlets to be GFCI proctected was reversed and they are no longer required to be GFCI protected by the 2020NEC.

https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/nec-rv-vehicles-and-parks-gfci-protection/

 

[hillbilly1]

I personally know one of the code making panel members, he said they go through thousands of code change requests, most are rejected. The majority being from the Unions, the rest from manufacturers. (Arc fault protection being one from manufacturers) I believe there are a few on this forum that were successful in getting the changes approved on what they submitted. So it’s not the panel members that pull the requirements out of their hats. They listen to the arguments presented, then make the decision on accepting them.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It's my understanding the requirement for 30A and 50A RV outlets to be GFCI proctected was reversed and they are no longer required to be GFCI protected by the 2020NEC.

https://www.jadelearning.com/blog/nec-rv-vehicles-and-parks-gfci-protection/

There was a TIA for RV parks, but that does not change the requirement for outside outlets for dwelling units required by 210.8(F) that may be used for RV trailers.

In addition, while the NFPA automatically puts TIAs in their electronic versions of the NEC, TIAs do no automatically become part of the legally adopted code, unless they are specifically adopted in the same manner as the code itself.

 

[ControlFreek]

I have a 240V 1phase 30A GFCI panelboard feeding a control panel, that has a 15A breaker that feeds heat trace outside of the panel. Does the 30A GFCI in the panelboard protect the heat trace, or do I need to add a second 15A GFCI breaker in my control panel, for the heat trace?

 

[grayzerelectric]

What are we considering the "outlet" in a hardwired charging station like the Gen 3 wall connector?
It does have integrated GFCI protection and all the wiring is inside the wall connector.

 

[wwhitney]

What are we considering the "outlet" in a hardwired charging station like the Gen 3 wall connector?
It does have integrated GFCI protection and all the wiring is inside the wall connector.

The outlet is the connection point between the building wiring and the equipment.

While the EVSE likely has ground fault protection internally, it may not have the 4-6ma trip level required for it to qualify as a GFCI. Also, as it is downstream of the outlet, it does not protect the outlet.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[grayzerelectric]

The outlet is the connection point between the building wiring and the equipment.

While the EVSE likely has ground fault protection internally, it may not have the 4-6ma trip level required for it to qualify as a GFCI. Also, as it is downstream of the outlet, it does not protect the outlet.

Cheers, Wayne

That connection point is the wall connector.
It's not like there's a 1900 box next to it or an AC disconnect of sorts that I could see as an outlet.
I'll have to check on that trip level, but what would we consider the outlet on a standard GFCI receptacle outside next to the breaker box?
The wiring behind the GFCI is outside and would not be protected by the GFCI that would be installed, but that is a legal install, correct?

 

[wwhitney]

That connection point is the wall connector.

Well, it's the point inside the wall connector's wiring compartment where you land the building wire.

I'll have to check on that trip level, but what would we consider the outlet on a standard GFCI receptacle outside next to the breaker box?

The receptacle itself, or perhaps the wipers in the receptacle. So with the receptacle, the GFCI circuitry inside the receptacle protects the outlet. While with the EVSE, the ground fault circuitry within it does not protect the outlet, only the EVSE cord and downstream.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[grayzerelectric]

In both situations, when the GFCI trips due to an issue, it will shut down the device/equipment, thus protecting the wires.
The wires are on the line side of the device/equipment and would not be shut off in that tripping scenario.
Once the device/equipment is off, how can we have an issue?
If we did, wouldn't it be possible in both scenarios?

 

[retirede]

The outlet is the connection point between the building wiring and the equipment.

While the EVSE likely has ground fault protection internally, it may not have the 4-6ma trip level required for it to qualify as a GFCI. Also, as it is downstream of the outlet, it does not protect the outlet.

Cheers, Wayne

625.22 requires the equipment to “have a listed system of protection against electric shock of personnel.”

 

[grayzerelectric]

Gen 3 wall connectors have CCID, Charge Circuit Interruption Device for protection of personnel.

 

[Rick 0920]

Would a 30 amp flanged inlet installed on the exterior of a dwelling unit in a readily accessible location be considered as an outlet?

 

[wwhitney]

625.22 requires the equipment to “have a listed system of protection against electric shock of personnel.”

Agreed, but it doesn't say GFCI. So that "listed system" may not qualify as a GFCI. I haven't checked the UL listing standard for EVSEs to see what it says.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[grayzerelectric]

Would a 30 amp flanged inlet installed on the exterior of a dwelling unit in a readily accessible location be considered as an outlet?

Assuming that's for a generator, I would say it's not an outlet as inlet seems to me to be the opposite of outlet.
And, it's not regularly on just sitting there.

 

[wwhitney]

In both situations, when the GFCI trips due to an issue, it will shut down the device/equipment, thus protecting the wires.

The point of GFCI isn't to protect wires or equipment, it's to protect people. The question is what is the upstream-most (closest to power source) point at which leakage current to ground will cause the GFCI to trip? That point needs to be upstream of the outlet in order for the outlet to be protected. If the (hypothetical) GFCI protection is within the equipment, the outlet is not protected.

I agree the practical difference is small, but the logical distinction is clear.

Cheers, Wayne