10 Amp branch circuits would you use them?

[texie]

Interesting. Do you ever use copper clad aluminum?

It has not been made as building wire since the 1970s. It was fairly short lived product but not because it was inferior, rather the economics of it vs. CU did it in. Some say it might make a comeback.

 

[retirede]

I suppose connections will be an issue copper clad or not. Now you will need a panel with more spaces for the same load

The concept is that, due to LED lighting, the total lighting load is as little as 1/10 of that of the same sized house with incandescents.

Even with 10 A circuits, you could have fewer lighting circuits.

 

[LarryFine]

The concept is that, due to LED lighting, the total lighting load is as little as 1/10 of that of the same sized house with incandescents.

Even with 10 A circuits, you could have fewer lighting circuits.

Agreed, but you still get 1.5 times as much on a 15a circuit.

 

[James L]

Agreed, but you still get 1.5 times as much on a 15a circuit.

So you can connect 3 houses on 1 circuit instead of just 2 houses

 

[texie]

This is probably only being talked about because copper is so high$$$

I suppose connections will be an issue copper clad or not.

Actually one of the selling points of CCA was that it was listed to use regular devices designed for CU connections.
Even though I was in the trade while this stuff was being produced, I never saw any. So I can't speak about what it was like to use.

 

[tom baker]

But the cost of copper 16 gage or 14 clad may be in a better position for a code change

 

[tortuga]

Well from what I can tell 10A circuits are the possibly the most significant code change for the 2023.
It has 23 proposals being discussed.
So far it appears to be just CCA I hope they include 16 AWG stranded CU also as I'd never use AL at that size.

 

[retirede]

Agreed, but you still get 1.5 times as much on a 15a circuit.

Agreed. But you get to the point where the number of circuits is determined by convenience and how much of the house you want to go dark in case of a fault, instead of being determined by the load. Example in post 13.

 

[macmikeman]

Two things to think about. One- even though most new houses with all led lights usually end up pulling less than 5 amps total for lighting (at least the less than 3,000 sq ft ones). By the time this gets thru the code there will be so many new restrictions added to the code to prevent any overcurrent draw on the new 10 amp rated wiring you probably won't save a nickel using 10 amp circuits. Two- One took so long to type , I forgot what Two was gonna be...........sorry bout that. I'm sure it was good though................

 

[macmikeman]

Oh yea, now I remember... They invented led lighting and the current dropped. Ok, fine. So all the new houses get wired up with itty bitty wiring, and then they invent something else that the womenfolk (we know who drives the market when it comes to bells and whistles) love and must have but it draws higher amps. Now whatya gonna do?

 

[LarryFine]

Thought: How would you feed fan/lights?

With load diversity, one 15a circuit could suffice where two 10a circuits might be needed.

 

[tortuga]

More digging this evening and looks like the 10 Amp circuits are passing in the 2023 code ballots:
Ballot Results
This item has passed ballot
15 Eligible Voters
0 Not Returned
12 Affirmative All

210.18 Rating.
Branch circuits recognized by this article shall be rated in accordance with the maximum
permitted ampere rating or setting of the overcurrent device. The rating for other than
individual branch circuits shall be 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, and 50 amperes. Where conductors of
higher ampacity are used for any reason, the ampere rating or setting of the specified
overcurrent device shall determine the circuit rating.
Exception No. 1: Multioutlet branch circuits greater than 50 amperes shall be permitted to
supply nonlighting outlet loads on industrial premises in locations where conditions of
maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the equipment.
Exception No. 2: Branch circuits rated 10 amperes shall not be permitted to supply
receptacle outlets.

First Revision No. 9198-NFPA 70-2021 has passed adding 10A circuits to AFCI

Change to text in current 210.12(A):
All 120-volt, single-phase, 10-, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying
outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchensfamily rooms, dining rooms,
living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms,
basements, closets, hallways, laundry areas, attics, garages, detached garages and
other ancillary structures such as storage sheds, or similar rooms or areas shall be
protected by any of the means described in 210.12(A)(1) through (6):

I still have yet to find the wiring methods...

 

[macmikeman]

Thought: How would you feed fan/lights?

Fans around 2, 2-1/2 amps usually. So that is what I mean about the restrictions that will inevitably show up before this thing gets passed. I wonder if the rope boys really wan't this idea to pass?

 

[LarryFine]

I wonder why or where they feel that a 10a circuit is actually preferable to what we have now.

As I first said, unless there's a real cost saving, I don't see the point for us.

 

[tortuga]

I am not sure really, I am kinda wondering this also? hence the thread who will really use 10A circuits?
16 AWG copper, if stranded perhaps. But i'd never go to 14 aluminum.
If the prices of copper just keep going up I suppose it is good to have options
I bet RV, manufactured home and mobile home manufacturers will like it.

More digging yes it appears all 23 code changes have passed:

First Revision No. 8371-NFPA 70-2021 [ Section No. 310.3(A) ]
(A) Minimum Size of Conductors.
The minimum size of conductors for voltage ratings up to and including 2000 volts shall be 14
AWG copper or 12 AWG aluminum or copper 16 AWG copper, 14 AWG copper -clad
aluminum, or 12 AWG aluminum , except as permitted elsewhere in this Code.

334.104 Conductors.
The 600-volt insulated power conductors shall be sizes For ungrounded, grounded, and
equipment grounding conductors, the conductor sizes shall be 16 AWG through 2 AWG
copper, 14 AWG through 2 AWG copper- conductors or sizes clad aluminum, or 12 AWG
through 2 AWG aluminum or copper-clad aluminum conductors. Control and signaling
conductors shall be no smaller than 18 AWG copper.
Control For control and signaling conductors, the minimum conductor sizes shall be no
smaller than 18 AWG copper, 14 AWG copper-clad aluminum, and 12 AWG aluminum .

 

[LarryFine]

Now I have to wonder how much cladding aluminum with copper costs in comparison to making copper one size smaller.

 

[tortuga]

I think I have only run into copper clad one time that I know of in the last 20 years, a condo plex near here is full of it.

If the 16copper is stranded that will help its durability.
Looking at this speaker cable we use, its actually already rated CL3 not CL2 so that 300V,
I bet that's really TFFN/THHN in there so a minor listing change an wa-la 16 AWG NM-B

 

[petersonra]

It seems to me this is a design issue and not a safety issue therefore The code should allow it and whether or not it gets used is up to the marketplace. As it should be.

 

[kwired]

But the cost of copper 16 gage or 14 clad may be in a better position for a code change

What does it cost to make it is also a potential factor.

And since when did NEC care about cost? At least after 1970ish anyway.

 

[480sparky]

....And since when did NEC care about cost? ....

When it comes to the price of the book.