1-phase induction motor starting current

Status
Not open for further replies.

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160215-2133 EST

Many tend to lump motor starting current into the term inrush current. The starting current to an induction motor is not comparable in form to the inrush current to a cold incandescent bulb or a transformer core driven into saturation.

In a motor there is a moderate air gap in the magnetic path and therefore it is difficult to produce conditions that saturate the core material.

Both incandescent bulbs and transformers have the possibility of initial inrush current that can be greater than 10 times the steady state current but only lasts about 1/2 cycle.

Starting an induction motor is like placing an inductor with internal resistance that does not easily saturate across the line. Basically a constant inductance with constant internal resistance.

For the definition of a split-phase induction motor see http://www.leeson.com/TechnicalInformation/sphase.html .

The waveforms that I show below are for an unloaded 1/3 HP split-phase motor.

For measurement I used a Rigol digital scope, a 10 A 50 mV shunt, and a Triac solid state switch. Input is a nominal 120 V, usually about 123 V. Scaling 100 V per major division for source voltage, 10 A per division for total motor current, and 10 millisecond per horizontal division.

If you look at the Leeson schematic you see two L/R paths in parallel. The starting coil path has a centrifugal switch that removes this path after the motor is near full speed. The starting coil path has a low L/R time constant which means it looks very resistive, and not very inductive. Thus, very little current phase shift. While the running winding has a much longer L/R time constant and its current has a much greater phase shift relative to the applied voltage. The two different phase shifts produce the two differnt magnetic vectors that create a rotating magnetic field for starting. This is a two phase motor for starting.

Without tearing the motor apart I can not separate the two currents for measurements. But the starting winding current is dominate and thus I can still show much of what is important relative to motor starting currnet.

You can not instantaneously change the current in an invariant inductor. Thus, I don't expect to see any large inrush current.

What is seen is a relatively constant current from the start with a gradual drop until the centrifugal switch opens. Then the current rapidly drops to a new level defined only by the run coil. For startup the phase shift for the combined pair of coils is about 20 deg, and for the run only coil about 70 deg.

Blue is motor voltage, and yellow is motor current.

160215-1458-MTR-Start-Current.jpg
.

See the motor voltage drop at start from the source impedance of the line to the motor. As current diminishes the voltage rises. At the 6th negative voltage peak the switch opens and a arc continues current flow until the voltage (current) zero crossing. After this we only have the run coil current with no appreciable mechanic load. Note: the large current phase shift.

If you add input impedance, then the time to reach speed is lengthened, but the starting current will be lower.

Remember all the above is without any additional mechanical load, We just have inertia, rolling, and windage friction.

.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160216-1041 EST

Hopefully the following scope displays are more readable. These are from Pico with greater vertical resolution (16 bit vs 8 bit), and ability to adjust horizontal pixels. The Rigol pictures are 800 wide while Pico are about 643. This forum software destroys resolution without reducing the file size. The Rigol files are are much more readable before importing than afterwards.

The following plots are 10 A / 50 mV for current, and voltage is with a 10x probe. The first photo is with whatever source impedance exists getting to my bench test spot. The second photo is with a 1 ohm resistor added in series on the hot line side. Voltage is that to the motor.

From these plots I would nake different estimates on current phase shift than in my previous post. Also note that after steady state with no mechanical load that there appera to be some core saturation showing in the current waveform.


No added line resistance:
Peak start current = 10 * 0.35/0.05 = 70 A, RMS = about 50 A. An analog Amprobe reads about 20 A on startup (duration too short to get more than a ballistic effect). Steady state with no mechanical load Amprobe reads 6 A. Eyeball estimate from below curve is less than 10 A RMS. Motor nameplate for full load is 5.9 A. Voltage drop at startup is around 10 V.
.
160216-1010-MTR-Start-I.jpg
.

Added 1 ohm series resistance:
Peak start current = 10 * 0.25/0.05 = 50 A, RMS = about 35 A. Voltage drop at startup is around 50 V. Startup time increased from 100 mS to 140 mS.
.
160216-1006-MTR-Start-I-Plus-1-Ohm.jpg .

,
 

meternerd

Senior Member
Location
Athol, ID
Occupation
retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
Thanks for the clarification.....I'm one of the guilty parties that refers to motor starting current as "inrush". Probably because most of my career was in the power industry, where transformer inrush was what I, as a relay tech, dealt with a lot. One interesting thing (at least to me) is that on substation transformer inrush there is a very strong second harmonic. That harmonic is what we use to "restrain" overcurrent trips on differential realys during energization. From your graphics, I don't see it. I wonder why. Seems like CEMF is still the limiter of current in any winding. So much I still don't know. Maybe just less to forget. Retirement is turning my brain to mush. Still better than workin', though.:cool:
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160216-1717 EST

meternerd:

The start winding is very much resistive and low on inductance so any induced voltage in that path is small compared to the voltage drop across the internal resistance of the start winding.

The run winding is high on inductance and low on resistance.

While the start winding is connected it tends to dominate in determining current flow from the parallel combination of windings. I would very much like to view the two currents separately, but I don't want to tear the motor apart.

However, you do start to see the total current drop after about the second cycle. The cycle peak current starts at about 70 A and drops to about 50 A just before the switch opens.

At start counter-EMF is not much of a factor in controlling current. Current at the start is primarily determined by the R, and L components, and they don't change much.

Transformers I will comment on later.

.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Break this tech info down for me :dunce:



Are they saying an induction motor has limited inrush?

They are saying that since an induction motor is primarily linear in nature (although reactive) and does not have an iron core with major hysteresis like a transformer, there is no significant "inrush" in the first cycle or two when the supply voltage is connected.
Instead you have a nice relatively linear current which decreases some as the motor comes up to speed and then decreases suddenly when the centrifugal switch opens.
Same for shaded pole and permanent split phase motors, only without the effects of a very high current start winding with a centrifugal switch.

The OP is trying to drive home the formal difference between inrush and high starting current. Not sure where the term "surge" fits into this binary choice.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
They are saying that since an induction motor is primarily linear in nature (although reactive) and does not have an iron core with major hysteresis like a transformer, there is no significant "inrush" in the first cycle or two when the supply voltage is connected.
Instead you have a nice relatively linear current which decreases some as the motor comes up to speed and then decreases suddenly when the centrifugal switch opens.
Same for shaded pole and permanent split phase motors, only without the effects of a very high current start winding with a centrifugal switch.

The OP is trying to drive home the formal difference between inrush and high starting current. Not sure where the term "surge" fits into this binary choice.

Ok, that makes more sense. So I guess the bulk of the "inrush" (high start current) comes before the motor drops off its start winding?


So how would a 3 phase squirrel cage motor compare?
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Ok, that makes more sense. So I guess the bulk of the "inrush" (high start current) comes before the motor drops off its start winding?


So how would a 3 phase squirrel cage motor compare?

A. It's not "inrush"!

B. Same thing only without the start winding and centrifugal switch.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
But wont the current be lower if the motor is switched on without the start winding? Of course the motor would sit and not turn, but pull less...?
Absolutely.

The start winding is there to provide starting torque. If you do not need any starting torque beyond offsetting friction and do not care how slowly the motor accelerates (and hence more current in the run winding until the counter EMF gets up to normal value) then you can scale the start winding very small compared to the run winding. General purpose motors just are not built that way.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160217-2207 EST

On the use of the word inrush.

The initial transient current that results from application of a voltage source to different loads can be quite different, but for a particular type of load it will have certain general characteristics.

For an induction motor this transient is much different than --- for a transformer, an incandescent bulb, or a DC power supply with a capacitor input filter. The latter three are quite similar in that there can be a very large initial peak current compared to the load's steady state current, and where the majority of this transient only lasts about 1/2 cycle.

The induction motor's starting current is almost always a large number of cycles and this duration is heavily dependent upon the mechanical load. If you look at the transient current waveforms you see grossly different results for the two classes.

Since the transient characteristics are very different for these two classes it seems appropriate that different names be used to describe what is happening. Unfortunately it is not common to use two different names --- inrush current vs starting current ---, and inrush gets used for both.

These two classes need to be treated differently for circuit protection, but may not be. Circa the early 1960s I developed the concept of an electronic circuit breaker to reliably work with these very large input transients yet provide close or compensated protection for steady state operation. If practical, I could tolerate any reasonable peak initial current yet trip on 1% overload during steady state operation. This work was done for Mechanical Products in jackson, Michigan, and resulted US Patent 3,299,322 issued 17 January 1967, and assigned to MP.

.
 

meternerd

Senior Member
Location
Athol, ID
Occupation
retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
Wanna get really confused? http://www.electrical4u.com/magnetizing-inrush-current-in-power-transformer/

I was going to try an explanation, but that is much more mind bending.....

I guess we're hung up on terminology. "Inrush" usually refers to transformers. Technically "magnetizing inrush", which refers to the maximum amount of current required to produce a magnetic field in the core of a transformer sufficient to cause an associated magnetic field of opposite polarity in the secondary winding to the point of stability. Once the transformer reaches a point of stability, current will be reduced to the amount necessary to produce an equal and opposite magnetic polarity in the secondary. Since that value is never really exactly equal, current will continue to flow in the primary even after stability. This current required to maintain the magnetic "coupling" of the primary and secondary windings is called "excitation current". With an open circuit on the secondary, the current required is dependent on the L and R characteristics of the windings and core. Newer digital TTR's can display this value in Ma. A higher than normal value can indicate winding or core problems.

That said....the discussion drifted off into split phase motors with start and run windings. What about a standard squirrel cage induction motor where there is only an armature and a stator? If the current limiting factor is called CEMF there, why not in a transformer. Seems both limit current magnetically. Ah well......time for another beer. I'm getting a headache. Besides...."inrush" is easier to type than "motor starting current".:thumbsup:
 

meternerd

Senior Member
Location
Athol, ID
Occupation
retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
160217-2207 EST

If practical, I could tolerate any reasonable peak initial current yet trip on 1% overload during steady state operation.

.

What kind of load would have an issue with only 1% overload? Any voltage fluctuation at all seem like it could cause more than that. Don't want to hijack the thread anymore than I already have, just curious.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
160217-2207 EST

On the use of the word inrush.

The initial transient current that results from application of a voltage source to different loads can be quite different, but for a particular type of load it will have certain general characteristics.

For an induction motor this transient is much different than --- for a transformer, an incandescent bulb, or a DC power supply with a capacitor input filter. The latter three are quite similar in that there can be a very large initial peak current compared to the load's steady state current, and where the majority of this transient only lasts about 1/2 cycle.

The induction motor's starting current is almost always a large number of cycles and this duration is heavily dependent upon the mechanical load. If you look at the transient current waveforms you see grossly different results for the two classes.

Since the transient characteristics are very different for these two classes it seems appropriate that different names be used to describe what is happening. Unfortunately it is not common to use two different names --- inrush current vs starting current ---, and inrush gets used for both.

These two classes need to be treated differently for circuit protection, but may not be. Circa the early 1960s I developed the concept of an electronic circuit breaker to reliably work with these very large input transients yet provide close or compensated protection for steady state operation. If practical, I could tolerate any reasonable peak initial current yet trip on 1% overload during steady state operation. This work was done for Mechanical Products in jackson, Michigan, and resulted US Patent 3,299,322 issued 17 January 1967, and assigned to MP.

.

So basicly there is no definition of the term in rush and this is just your personal opinion of the term in rush.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
16021158 EST

meternerd:

This was a new new thread that I started with the title including motor starting current. Not to be confused with some other thread. However, I don't care where the thread goes. The only purpose of the thread was to stimulate thought and possibly show readers what motor starting current looks like and where it comes from. Starting current will be different for different kinds of motors. I don't have three phase at home, although it is on the pole. Put a large inertia load on a split phase motor and I can probably burn out the starting coil amd possibly the running coil.

A capacitor start and run motor will have somewhat different characteristics, but will have similarities to the split phase motor.

To show a three phase motor starting current I have to drag equiment to the shop and run experiments there. Later maybe.

It is definitely appropriate to bring up what transformer inrush current looks like. At present at my website http://beta-a2.com/EE-photos.html you can go to photo P1 for a tungsten lamp, P2 shows a different turn on point, P5 is a stable resistor, P6 for a transformer at conditions for a large peak, and P7 at low peak conditions.

.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160217-1239 EST

iwire:

Let's say it is my opinion, I am happy with that.

It is useful to use different words for different conditions. The condition of starting a split-phase induction motor is quite different than applying voltage to a transformer primary. Thus, different wording can be useful.

To tolerate starting a motor a soft starter of some sort maybe used. This is because of the starting characteristics of the motor. A different approach is likely with a transformer because of the different turn on transient.

Looking in Alternating-Current Machinery by Bailey and Gault there is no mention of inrush current. There is reference to "locked rotor current", "starting efficiency", and then on page 295 relative to single-phase motors the following statement is made --- "Ordinary commercial motors of this type are guaranteed to produce at least 150 percent of full-load torque when starting. They are therefore able to start any reasonable load but in doing so take a very large starting current. For example, if the starting torque is 150 percent of full-load torque, the starting current will be approximately 10 times full-load current."

.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top