Classified Cutler Hammer replacement breakers in different brand of panels -

[RGW]

Cutler Hammer has a UL Classified Circuit Breaker Replacement Chart that claims their CL-1" Classified and CHQ 3/4" Classified breakers are approved and can be installed as replacement breakers in Square D Homeline and QO panels, General Electric panels, Siemens/ITE panels, Murray panels and Thomas & Betts panels.

I know there are several opinions on the validity of this as well as issues with product warranty. What's the real answer? Can these classified breakers be installed in any or all of the panels listed above without violating the warranty and or NEC?

 

[jumper]

Is this your chart?

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@electrical/documents/content/sa00304001e.pdf

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Even though UL says you can use these breakers, I see them as 110.3(B) violation as the instructions provided with every panel I have ever looked at specify the use of their only breakers.

UL does not agree with this and tell us that we can use classified breakers, even though they are repeatedly on record as saying all manufacturer's instructions are 110.3(B) instructions, they make an exception for the classified breakers. I just don't see it that way.

The manufacturers say that the use of classified breakers will void the warranty, but there is a federal law that says you can use non-OEM parts that meet the OEM specs without voiding a warranty.

 

[petersonra]

(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

There seems to be a mistaken impression that all manufacturer's instructions are covered by 110.3(B). Clearly the actual wording of the provision precludes this interpretation.

The manufacturer does not have a say in whether a particular instruction is "included in the listing". Only UL can determine that.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

There seems to be a mistaken impression that all manufacturer's instructions are covered by 110.3(B). Clearly the actual wording of the provision precludes this interpretation.

The manufacturer does not have a say in whether a particular instruction is "included in the listing". Only UL can determine that.

UL is on record with statements that say all manufacturer supplied information is 110.3(B)

Q Are the installation instructions part of the UL Listing?

Are all Listed products required to have installation instructions?

Are installation instructions reviewed by UL?

A Installation instructions are considered to be a part of the UL Listing.

The UL Standards for Safety used to investigate products contain specific requirements regarding the content and appearance of the instructions. Installation instructions are not required to be marked with the UL Mark, but they are required to be provided with the product bearing the UL Mark.
Some products are not required to have installation instructions when the National Electrical Code contains all the necessary installation requirements, such as outlet boxes.

UL staff reviews the instructions, both during the initial evaluation of the product, as well as during the continual Follow-Up Service at the factories. The clarity of the instructions
is also reviewed.

There is an statement that has even stronger wording than this one, but I can't find it.....UL's official position is if the manufacturer prints it, it is a 110.3(B) instruction.

 

[jumper]

Cool old (2002) thread on the same topic.

http://www.mikeholt.com/forum/forum1/html/002515.html

 

[knowingthis]

Cutler Hammer has a UL Classified Circuit Breaker Replacement Chart that claims their CL-1" Classified and CHQ 3/4" Classified breakers are approved and can be installed as replacement breakers in Square D Homeline and QO panels, General Electric panels, Siemens/ITE panels, Murray panels and Thomas & Betts panels.

I know there are several opinions on the validity of this as well as issues with product warranty. What's the real answer? Can these classified breakers be installed in any or all of the panels listed above without violating the warranty and or NEC?

Found an old post (11 minutes late and a dollar short...) with a UL response. OG post

Found it!
Posted by Rick Meill:
I finally received a reply from a UL friend. He said he did not have time to help on this forum, but he did give me the UL's position on this subject. I quote form his e-mail the following:
"When panelboards are UL Listed they are Listed with a marking that
identifies the circuit breakers that were investigated and Listed for
installation in that panelboard. When a circuit breaker is Listed it is
evaluated for use in specific panelboards that correlate to the Listed
panelboard. Just because a circuit breaker fits in a panelboard does not
mean it was Listed or Classified for use in that panelboard.
When a Molded Case Circuit Breaker is UL Classified for use in Specified
Equipment ( DIXF), (see page 12 in the 2000 White Book or enter DIXF at the
CCN/Guide Information search online at http://www.ul.com/database/ ) it
also has been investigated for use in specific panelboards. Those
panelboards that it was Classified for use in are either provided as a
compatibility list marking on the circuit breaker or there is a marking
that indicates to reference the compatibility list provided with the
circuit breaker as a stuffer sheet with the breaker. The Classified and
Listed breakers comply with the same requirements, UL 489, the Standard for
Molded Case Circuit breakers. The reason one is Classified as opposed to
Listed is basically because they are not manufactured by the same
manufacturer. However, they are required to have their Classified breaker
evaluated for use in all the panelboards that they identify.

Using a Classified circuit breaker in another manufacturers panelboard does
not void the Listing on the panelboard, provided the specific panelboard is
identified on the compatibility List provided with the UL Classified
circuit breaker. The Classification of the circuit breaker for use in the
Listed panelboard is basically an addendum to the Listing of the
panelboard. The combination of the two were evaluated by UL and the
circuit breaker Classified for use in the Listed panelboard. Therefore,
because the circuit breaker is Classified for use in the Listed panelboard
and is so identified, both comply with NEC Section 110-3(b), and no
Listings or Classifications are voided."

I apologize for the delay in getting this here, but at least we have UL's word on it now.

Rick Miell


I also think the Magnuson Moss Act further backs the approval of using UL Classified breakers in panels the breakers are classified for use in without voiding any warranties as long as you consider the panels to be consumer products which, after reading the legal definition, I do.

 

[petersonra]

UL is on record with statements that say all manufacturer supplied information is 110.3(B)

There is an statement that has even stronger wording than this one, but I can't find it.....UL's official position is if the manufacturer prints it, it is a 110.3(B) instruction.

of course UL is also on record as saying it does not apply in the case of replacement breakers.

 

[GoldDigger]

of course UL is also on record as saying it does not apply in the case of replacement breakers.

Using the somewhat strained but credible argument that the Classification listing acts as an amendment/supplement to the originally published installation instructions on the panel.
Something to think about:
Must you follow old instructions (which may lead you to code violations) when the same equipment, under the same UL listing, is currently being supplied with different instructions?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

of course UL is also on record as saying it does not apply in the case of replacement breakers.

And my position is that they can't have it both ways....the two statements are in direct conflict.
It is my opinion, but not shared by UL, that the only 110.3(B) instructions are what is found in the UL White Book.