AFCI and panel change

[ceb58]

Is there a maximum space that you can move a service panel and not have to upgrade with AFCI's? While taking an online course for my CE I remember something about no more than 6 ft. but cannot find the reference to that.

 

[jumper]

2014 NEC

210.12(B)(2)

Exception: AFCI protection shall not be required where
the extension of the existing conductors is not more than
1.8 m (6 ft) and does not include any additional outlets or
devices.

PS. I think Dennis wrote the proposal that got this added.

 

[bphgravity]

Since the state of NC is on the 2011 NEC, you are required to comply with the main rule in Section 210.12(B). The 6-foot exception has been added to the 2014 NEC which has not yet been adopted in NC.

Please be advised the NC Electrical Committee submitted a recommendation to delete the exception from Section 210.12(B) with the adoption of the 2014 NEC (See Item 6.6 of the September BCC Meeting Agenda). The BCC has yet to vote on that petition and proposed amendment so its still not clear how the state will proceed.

So in the meantime, I would consult your AHJ to see of they will allow any form of circuit modification or extension without invoking the AFCI requirement.

 

[ceb58]

Since the state of NC is on the 2011 NEC, you are required to comply with the main rule in Section 210.12(B). The 6-foot exception has been added to the 2014 NEC which has not yet been adopted in NC.

Please be advised the NC Electrical Committee submitted a recommendation to delete the exception from Section 210.12(B) with the adoption of the 2014 NEC (See Item 6.6 of the September BCC Meeting Agenda). The BCC has yet to vote on that petition and proposed amendment so its still not clear how the state will proceed.

So in the meantime, I would consult your AHJ to see of they will allow any form of circuit modification or extension without invoking the AFCI requirement.

And that is my dilemma. Still under the 2011. Thank you NC Home Builders Association.
The panel I am changing is in my home. I can put it back in the same place but I may have to extend the circuits in the panel its self due to different panel sizes. Our head inspector retired and his assistant is doing all inspections now. He is a good guy but is afraid to make a judgment call with out backup code references.

 

[jumper]

And that is my dilemma. Still under the 2011. Thank you NC Home Builders Association.
The panel I am changing is in my home. I can put it back in the same place but I may have to extend the circuits in the panel its self due to different panel sizes. Our head inspector retired and his assistant is doing all inspections now. He is a good guy but is afraid to make a judgment call with out backup code references.

Distract him with coffee and donuts.

 

[bphgravity]

Maybe you can talk your electrical inspector into contacting Ron Chilton at the State Fire Marshal's Office. Mr. Chilton's contact information can be found here: http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Contacts/

Since Ron Chilton writes all the of the electrical code interpretations and serves as the OSFM representative to the BCC, I am quite certain he will give your inspector all the guidance he needs to make reasonable and practical decisions.

 

[jaylectricity]

And that is my dilemma. Still under the 2011. Thank you NC Home Builders Association.
The panel I am changing is in my home. I can put it back in the same place but I may have to extend the circuits in the panel its self due to different panel sizes. Our head inspector retired and his assistant is doing all inspections now. He is a good guy but is afraid to make a judgment call with out backup code references.

So he doesn't have any backup code references? If he doesn't have a code reference to make you install AFCI, then he can't fail you. What he's afraid of is not knowing how to find the proper code. If he can't make the code say you have to install AFCI, then he can't fail you for not doing so.

Like it was said, distract him with coffee and donuts. Tell him if he can't find a code to prohibit you from just replacing the service, adding a few inches of wire to land them on the new breaker and bar terminations then he should feel comfortable passing your installation.

It doesn't have to be a judgment call.

 

[Sierrasparky]

What about the word modification in the code.

 

[jaylectricity]

What about the word modification in the code.

If they had to modify the article to clarify it, why can't we agree that it was unclear before?

"NOPE, that's the way we wrote it before, incorrectly, so anybody who is still in that old code cycle should continue to do it wrong."

 

[ptonsparky]

If they had to modify the article to clarify it, why can't we agree that it was unclear before?

"NOPE, that's the way we wrote it before, incorrectly, so anybody who is still in that old code cycle should continue to do it wrong."

No, I do not misunderstand what I think you didn't say by omission.

 

[cowboyjwc]

So he doesn't have any backup code references? If he doesn't have a code reference to make you install AFCI, then he can't fail you. What he's afraid of is not knowing how to find the proper code. If he can't make the code say you have to install AFCI, then he can't fail you for not doing so.

Like it was said, distract him with coffee and donuts. Tell him if he can't find a code to prohibit you from just replacing the service, adding a few inches of wire to land them on the new breaker and bar terminations then he should feel comfortable passing your installation.

It doesn't have to be a judgment call.

210.12(B) says "....or extended...", so technically if he made you add them he wouldn't be wrong. We don't require it here on a service change, but doesn't mean someone else might not.