Landing EGC in Meter/Main

[hurk27]

There is no problem landing any EGC or the GEC on the neutral bus in that cabinet. I would say the lower right lug is intended for EGC only but doesn't mean it has to land there.

kwired, I see the first means of disconnect outside at the meter main combo. So why is the indoor panel not a sub panel ?

I believe he was addressing the meter/main cabinet as a lower right lug is not mention anywhere for the sub-panel?

The reason the lower right lug can only be used for EGC's is 250.24(A)(4) requires the main bonding jumper to be a wire or busbar not a screw before the GEC can land on the EGC bar.

We use the lower right lugs to bond our conduit bushings.

Also I noticed that the OP'er has forgot to use white tape to mark the neutral conductor?

 

[kwired]

Kwired is talking about the picture of the meter/main.... The landing the EGC on the bottom right bus where the label says Equip Ground

That is correct, it contains the service disconnecting means, the grounded conductor and the equipment grounding conductors, as well as the grounding electrode conductor can all land on the neutral bus in that cabinet. The lug at the bottom right corner however is bolted to the cabinet and can not be used for grounded conductor terminations only for equipment grounding conductors or the grounding electrode conductor.

Kwited is talking about the lug on the bottom right in the meter main

Some POCO's will allow it. Never had a problem here in NC with bonding in the meter.

It's prohibited in Michigan. At least by Consumers Energy.

When you have a meter/main like in this instance, the meter portion could have such restrictions but the load center portion of the cabinet should not be a problem to land anything besides maybe service conductors, if there is a problem then they shouldn't allow meter/mains to begin with.

 

[DBoone]

I believe he was addressing the meter/main cabinet as a lower right lug is not mention anywhere for the sub-panel?The reason the lower right lug can only be used for EGC's is 250.24(A)(4) requires the main bonding jumper to be a wire or busbar not a screw before the GEC can land on the EGC bar.We use the lower right lugs to bond our conduit bushings.Also I noticed that the OP'er has forgot to use white tape to mark the neutral conductor?

Neutral will be marked with white tape before we are finished.

 

[DBoone]

That is correct, it contains the service disconnecting means, the grounded conductor and the equipment grounding conductors, as well as the grounding electrode conductor can all land on the neutral bus in that cabinet. The lug at the bottom right corner however is bolted to the cabinet and can not be used for grounded conductor terminations only for equipment grounding conductors or the grounding electrode conductor.





When you have a meter/main like in this instance, the meter portion could have such restrictions but the load center portion of the cabinet should not be a problem to land anything besides maybe service conductors, if there is a problem then they shouldn't allow meter/mains to begin with.

Hurk says we can't land the GEC down on the bottom right because there is no wire or bar connecting the neutral bus to the EGC lug. What say you.

P.S. - I'm really leaning towards just landing everything over on the neutral bus just to keep it simple.

 

[Joe Villani]

I had to leave before I could completely finish my post. The rest is, the lug in the bottom right is also for the GEC. There is the small 3/8 KO below the lug. You use less wire that way.

You be in violation of 250.24(A)(1) and (A)(4) (NEC 2008) if you landed the GEC on the double lug on the bottom right.

 

[kwired]

You be in violation of 250.24(A)(1) and (A)(4) (NEC 2008) if you landed the GEC on the double lug on the bottom right.

There it is, I was going to address whether or not you could land the GEC on that lug in my last post but was having a hard time finding the section that permitted/ did not permit it, fortunately I focused too much on 250 part III and it is in part II

 

[hurk27]

There it is, I was going to address whether or not you could land the GEC on that lug in my last post but was having a hard time finding the section that permitted/ did not permit it, fortunately I focused too much on 250 part III and it is in part II

Fortunately if we have a separate EGC bar and we are short of large lug spaces for the GEC on the neutral bar or have allot of GECs to land because we ran each one back to the panel then we can add a jumper sized for the largest GEC between the neutral bar and the EGC bar which then effectively the 250.24(A)(4) rule goes away sort of speak, had to do this a few times when my grounding electrodes were to far apart to make it cost effective to just jumper between them.

Don't feel bad I loose where codes are all the time since now I'm working at the steel mill.:roll: or it could be my OFS starting to sink in:lol:

 

[DBoone]

Update:

My boss finished wiring the meter/main and landed the EGC and GEC on the bottom right lug.

GEC was too short to move to the neutral bar so I did not even say a word because all I would of heard is " it doesn't matter, if it's grounded it's grounded..etc"

Wish I could get him to believe electrical theory. He was taught old school such as electrical is going to the ground and there is no current on the neutral. :blink: We have had some heated exchanges.

Great guy and contractor, a friend, but he will not budge on this electrical stuff.

 

[John120/240]

Update:

My boss finished wiring the meter/main and landed the EGC and GEC on the bottom right lug.

GEC was too short to move to the neutral bar so I did not even say a word because all I would of heard is " it doesn't matter, if it's grounded it's grounded..etc"

Wish I could get him to believe electrical theory. He was taught old school such as electrical is going to the ground and there is no current on the neutral. :blink: We have had some heated exchanges.

Great guy and contractor, a friend, but he will not budge on this electrical stuff.

Encourage your boss to join & participate here. Maybe he can be shown what he believes is wrong.

 

[DBoone]

Encourage your boss to join & participate here. Maybe he can be shown what he believes is wrong.

Yeah I wish he would, it would make it easier for me but he won't. So I'll just continue to Ask questions and learn myself. :thumbsup:

 

[meternerd]

From a POCO perspective.....right, the GEC can only land on the "grounding bus" if there is a wire or busbar connecting it to the neutral bar. In this case the neutral bar and the ground bus are one in the same, since it appears the neutral bar is screwed to the can. Can't use the can as a conductor in the main disconnect section. If you notice, there's an enclosed wireway with a non-removable cover in the left part of the can. That's because most utilities (at least the Western ones) do not allow customer wiring (including the GEC) to pass through or terminate in the sealed utility section. Only the utility underground phase and neutral wires can be in the wireway.