Who is responsible for knowing about the existence of revised prints?

[J.P.]

On every large job there seems to be several revisions of prints in the hands of different trades.

There is nothing I love more than a revision only the GC has. After scaling a print laying out the building or making simple drawings for my crew and roughing in, only to find there is a revision.

Is it my responsibility to ask each morning if there are a new set of prints for the job? I do ask about revisions these days, But it seems like the GC would let people know if he gets a revision.



A while back My crew and I were putting the underground for a 80 office building.The plumbers were there as well, which is great. A little chat with the plumbers usually avoids any problems later.

The gist of the story is that we used lines the GC had pulled to measure from to layout our electrical feed, the plumbers did the same and we made sure the floor drain wasn't under the transformer But both of us were unknowingly working off of an old set of prints. The room had been moved 10ft away and made smaller.

The GC waited until we were backfilling before saying anything ( or noticing ) .The Plumber and I weren't happy campers. I had that knucklehead GC come over before I started digging to make sure he had no issues..........

That job, which turned into another large industrial shop/office combo were a nightmare. The GC's man in charge turned out to be a absolute weasel with a veneer of back-stabbing yes man with no accountability. And the project manager was a fresh out of college economic major who had worked for a carpenter one summer. I heard a lot of "I don't know, I'll get back to you on that."

Of course tomorrow never comes. And revised prints are only made available after you think you are done.

 

[__dan]

There is "a" set of plans and specs that are part of the contract documents, the point where legal obligations to perform are attached. Deviations from the contract documents are either an "approved change" or an unapproved change. The contract spec book usually has a change order approval procedure (signed by the engineer of record as the owner's agent). (It can be difficult to obtain a copy of the contractual set of plans as copies cost money and no one wants to pay).

Your office (estimator, PM) would be responsible for keeping track of the contractual set of plans along with approved changes.

Your other question went to field layout and it can get into a grey area. If there is a mistake and blame or liability to lay on for money damages, the legality of who said what comes in. For example, if a licensed person acts on the advice of an unlicensed or improperly licensed person and makes a mistake that causes a claim for money, liability could attached to the license holder and not to the unlicensed idiot who gave the idiotic instruction. For liability assignment, the law will look to the license holder even if you were just nearby and not directly at fault. The judge may say, "what did you listen to that idiot for, he doesn't have a license".

You would be legally obligated to perform to the contractual set of plans, even if they are wrong (except for code violations which you will own). You would be obligated to pursue approved changes in the manner the contract change procedure provides for you.

 

[__dan]

I should add that because of the liability that would attach to the PE, engineer of record's, senior license, very rarely or never will you actually see a PE walk the job site and give specific instructions or will you see his stamped plans. The PE will send unlicensed draftsmen out to oversee the job routinely, contract documents can be closely held, and that may be why you see older preconstruction documents with errors floating around. Those are what is at hand, the prebid set.

Obviously, mistakes on the job may happen that result in claims for damages in the millions and everyone will want to point the finger at someone else. You don't want to be nearby with a license when that happens.

Also the time allowed for construction is always artificially compressed and the people higher up with full time staff will think the undersized sub cannot keep up with the paperwork battle. They may try to get unapproved changes done and later not pay based on no paperwork. They will spend five to ten years getting financing, approved engineered plans, presold leases, tenants with contractual move in dates, then give you four to six months to build it (or less).

The industry can be generally anti labor and I am a firm believer that labor needs to be better organized. (note to moderators, not a rant in the way that is banned on this board).

 

[Sierrasparky]

My contracts alway specify the date and revision number of the plans the GC provides. I ask for city approved plans if they are not stamped such. I ask if there are changes but I cannot pull outta my ass what someone refuses to provide.
This crap happes way too often.
Always leads to a upset with the GC or Owner.
It's like they do it on purpose.

 

[cowboyjwc]

This is kind of what we were talking about in another thread. I had a set of electrical plans that the last delta was HH. meaning they had 34 revised sets of electrical plans.

 

[gadfly56]

Based on the couple of large jobs I've worked on, it's definitely the GC's responsibility to make sure that the subs have the latest plans. Typically we would receive a revised set and be required to respond in 24-48 hours with any changes that the revisions would require in our work. If you didn't speak up, it was assumed per the contract language that there were no impacts. Any oops! you found later on was on your dime. They sent us everything, no matter what trade the changes were for.

I can't see how any contractor can be held responsible for work or changes they haven't been informed of. When it comes to drawings, there's no such thing as too much sharing. Even less so these days when it's dead easy to send changes via PDF. I hope you and the plumber were compensated for any changes you had to make.

 

[tshea]

The GC's man in charge turned out to be a absolute weasel with a veneer of back-stabbing yes man with no accountability.

I met him on several jobs. A 3/4" pipe bender fixed the problem one day

I billed the GC for work his "foreman" demanded. I filed a lien on the job. The GC was not happy to pay the bill but did. The owner threatened him with legal action and forced him to pay.

I rarely work for GCs any more.

 

[gadfly56]

I met him on several jobs. A 3/4" pipe bender fixed the problem one day

I billed the GC for work his "foreman" demanded. I filed a lien on the job. The GC was not happy to pay the bill but did. The owner threatened him with legal action and forced him to pay.

I rarely work for GCs any more.

Or as we like to say, "It's good work if you can avoid it".

 

[hanan]

Your question went to field layout and it can get into a grey area. If there is a mistake and blame or liability to lay on for money damages, the legality of who said what comes in. For example, if a licensed person acts on the advice of an unlicensed or improperly licensed person and makes a mistake that causes a claim for money, liability could attached to the license holder and not to the unlicensed idiot who gave the idiotic instruction. For liability assignment, the law will look to the license holder even if you were just nearby and not directly at fault. The judge may say, "what did you listen to that idiot for, he doesn't have a license".