Peninsula receptacles below 13" overhang

[donniet1977]

I realize that a receptacle on a peninsula less than 12" below the countertop but under an overhang greater than 6" will not count as the required peninsula receptacle, but can it still be there? I have read this over and over in the 2011 NEC and I do not see that I can't put one there. I only see that it won't meet the peninsula receptacle requirement.

To make it even more grey, can it be on one of the small branch appliance circuits?

I want two 120V/USB receptacles 3" below the 42" high peninsula countertop bar (13"overhang) on the living room side to mainly facilitate cell phone/tablet charging. I'd like to add these into one of the two kitchen small appliance branch circuits.

Thanks,

Don

 

[jumper]

Yes, you can put them there and yes, they can be on the SABC.

 

[Smart $]

Yes, you can put them there and yes, they can be on the SABC.

Actually, I believe they are required to be on an SABC... subject to interpretation, but I say even though that side is the living room, the countertop is considered a dining area if the other side is the kitchen area.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO if the outlet is below 13 inches and facing the living room it cannot be on a small appliance branch circuit. If it were 12" or closer than it would be required however then you may need one to cover the living room side.

 

[Smart $]

IMO if the outlet is below 13 inches and facing the living room it cannot be on a small appliance branch circuit. If it were 12" or closer than it would be required however then you may need one to cover the living room side.

It wouldn't matter where they are mounted height wise if the counter will be used for dining or food-service. He hasn't said... or what's on the other side.

I just love it when posters have somewhat made up there minds before posting and only give enough detail for us to see it their way. :happyno:

 

[donniet1977]

IMO if the outlet is below 13 inches and facing the living room it cannot be on a small appliance branch circuit. If it were 12" or closer than it would be required however then you may need one to cover the living room side.

I think you may have misread the post. Both outlets will be 3" below the countertop but under a 13" overhang. My concern is the part of the code that talks about a receptacle not being counted as the required receptacle if it is under an overhang of more than 6". I have other outlets that will meet the requirement. I want to install these 2 as "extras".

 

[donniet1977]

It wouldn't matter where they are mounted height wise if the counter will be used for dining or food-service. He hasn't said... or what's on the other side.

I just love it when posters have somewhat made up there minds before posting and only give enough detail for us to see it their way. :happyno:

It is a peninsula countertop with a gas range in the middle on the kitchen side. The side in question faces the living room. This countertop bar will be used for dining occasionally. I have no problem adding them to the sabc but just want to make sure they will be legal while sitting under a 13" overhang. If not, I can lower them down closer to the floor.

Thanks,

Don

 

[mwm1752]

Code is minimum - If the recept is serving a qualified location/room for the SABC recepts and you meet the minimum placing requirements the I would consider this ok. You are able to place a recept in the diningroom side of the peninsula, with a similar type overhang placed for general recept requirements, on the SABC. Some owners do not want to see the general recept and as long as it is 0" to 5'6" you are good.

 

[Smart $]

It is a peninsula countertop with a gas range in the middle on the kitchen side. The side in question faces the living room. This countertop bar will be used for dining occasionally. I have no problem adding them to the sabc but just want to make sure they will be legal while sitting under a 13" overhang. If not, I can lower them down closer to the floor.

Thanks,

Don

I don't believe there is anything which prohibits you from placing the receptacles where you/they want.

 

[Ponchik]

From what i understand you want these two receptacle/USB devices that are mounted 3" below the counter top and are under a 13" over hang to be counted for your peninsula receptacle as well?

You do not have another receptacles that are not under the overhang to satisfy the 6" overhang rule?

 

[mwm1752]

From what i understand you want these two receptacle/USB devices that are mounted 3" below the counter top and are under a 13" over hang to be counted for your peninsula receptacle as well?

You do not have another receptacles that are not under the overhang to satisfy the 6" overhang rule?

He addded another post stating the required app recepts were in place -- these are to be above & beyond the requirement

 

[kwired]

It is a peninsula countertop with a gas range in the middle on the kitchen side. The side in question faces the living room. This countertop bar will be used for dining occasionally. I have no problem adding them to the sabc but just want to make sure they will be legal while sitting under a 13" overhang. If not, I can lower them down closer to the floor.

Thanks,

Don

It all comes down to interpretation of whether or not they are receptacles in the kitchen, dining room, breakfast room, pantry, .... other similar areas. If so they are required to be on the SABC's, if not so they are not permitted to be on the SABC's. Since this side is used as a dining area I would think most would consider it being part of the mentioned rooms where the SABC's are required. Height doesn't really matter at all unless they are over 5.5 feet above the floor. Once over that height they are not really a part of 210.52 requirements at all.

 

[charlie b]

Here is my take on the situation: Yes, you can put them where you describe, but no, they can?t be on a SABC.

I will start with that second statement. 210.52(B)(1) lists the locations that require receptacles to be on SABCs. The living room is not on that list. Since the receptacles in question do not serve the kitchen countertop, and since they are located in the living room, 210.52(B)(2) will put them into the ?no other outlets? category.

Now the tricky part. I have also gone in circles over this question. There are some rules that not only give minimum requirements, but that tell us that any ?extras? beyond the minimum must also follow the same rules. For example, if you put receptacles every 12 inches along the kitchen countertop backsplash, you will have more than the rule requires. But every one of them, even the ?extras,? have to be on a SABC. So the essential question is this: If you put ?extra? receptacles on a peninsula, do they have to conform with the ?receptacle outlet location? rule of 210.52(C)(5)?

I used to think so. But now I realize that the 6? overhang rule does not apply to your situation! Take a close look at the exception to 210.52(C)(5). That is where the 6? rule resides. But it says that it applies only in the two circumstances shown in the two following paragraphs (1) and (2). Item (1) does not concern us in this installation. What is important is that you don?t meet the description of item (2). Essentially, you are allowed to install the required receptacle up to 12 inches below a 6? overhang, IF AND ONLY IF there is no other way to get the required receptacle installed on or above the peninsula countertop surface. That is not the case her. I don?t know how you managed to get the required receptacles installed, but you did manage it. So this exception cannot be used. Thus, the 6? overhang rule does not apply.

Where does that leave you? Well, you are not talking about the receptacle required by 210.52(C)(3). I would say you are nowhere within 210.52. So I conclude that you can put the receptacles where you have described.

 

[charlie b]

The side in question faces the living room. This countertop bar will be used for dining occasionally.

The sofa in my living room faces the TV, and is also sometimes used for dining. That does not mean that the living room is now a dining room or similar area. That is the basis of my saing you can't use one of the SABCs for these receptacles.

 

[kwired]

Here is my take on the situation: Yes, you can put them where you describe, but no, they can?t be on a SABC.

I will start with that second statement. 210.52(B)(1) lists the locations that require receptacles to be on SABCs. The living room is not on that list. Since the receptacles in question do not serve the kitchen countertop, and since they are located in the living room, 210.52(B)(2) will put them into the ?no other outlets? category.

Now the tricky part. I have also gone in circles over this question. There are some rules that not only give minimum requirements, but that tell us that any ?extras? beyond the minimum must also follow the same rules. For example, if you put receptacles every 12 inches along the kitchen countertop backsplash, you will have more than the rule requires. But every one of them, even the ?extras,? have to be on a SABC. So the essential question is this: If you put ?extra? receptacles on a peninsula, do they have to conform with the ?receptacle outlet location? rule of 210.52(C)(5)?

I used to think so. But now I realize that the 6? overhang rule does not apply to your situation! Take a close look at the exception to 210.52(C)(5). That is where the 6? rule resides. But it says that it applies only in the two circumstances shown in the two following paragraphs (1) and (2). Item (1) does not concern us in this installation. What is important is that you don?t meet the description of item (2). Essentially, you are allowed to install the required receptacle up to 12 inches below a 6? overhang, IF AND ONLY IF there is no other way to get the required receptacle installed on or above the peninsula countertop surface. That is not the case her. I don?t know how you managed to get the required receptacles installed, but you did manage it. So this exception cannot be used. Thus, the 6? overhang rule does not apply.

Where does that leave you? Well, you are not talking about the receptacle required by 210.52(C)(3). I would say you are nowhere within 210.52. So I conclude that you can put the receptacles where you have described.

The question may be -is the living room side actually the living room, or if dining chairs are used at this counter does the living room start at some other point (that may not be all that well defined) beyond that counter? I have exactly what I described at my own house. No receptacles at all under this overhanging countertop, the countertop is a usual eating area with chairs on the living room side, no definite division otherwise telling us where the living room ends and the kitchen/dining room starts.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I think you may have misread the post. Both outlets will be 3" below the countertop but under a 13" overhang. My concern is the part of the code that talks about a receptacle not being counted as the required receptacle if it is under an overhang of more than 6". I have other outlets that will meet the requirement. I want to install these 2 as "extras".

Go ahead. Now what are you calling them?

They could meet 210.52 for wall spacing if you say that they are in another room. If you say they are part of the kitchen or similar area then put them on a SBAC.

Simple answer - put them on their own 20 AMP circuit and no matter what you call them you are covered.