Old Existing Home

[bfd14]

If an old existing home has a panelboard in the bathroom can they be made to move it to comply with current code without doing any permitted renovations?

 

[102 Inspector]

I would not automatically require the panel to be relocated without first looking at the condition of the existing. If there are signs of degradation, then I would certainly encourage relocation. A possible solution could be to install a code compliant panel and use the existing as a junction box for the existing circuits. Once the guts are stripped from the panelboard, there should be plenty of box fill to join up all the circuits. Any new circuits should come from the new panelboard. The cover to the new "junction box" might be the only issue if it cannot be effectively sealed.

 

[bfd14]

Thank You..102 Inspector....I will looking at this issue today and appreciate your input.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I once looked at a bathroom on the second story of a single family late Victorian that still had the legacy knob and tube asbestos lined wood cabinet fuse panel (with fuses) mounted in the wall above the long dimension of the claw foot bath tub.

In the course of that I learned that the existing installation is not covered by the National Electrical Code, as the Code is a "new construction standard." I learned that the "Code" that applied to the situation was in local ordinance written and enforced to help maintain the premises wiring systems of existing dwellings.

I did not get the bath reset wiring contract, in that situation, because another electrical contractor (and it was an electrical contractor, not some one without credentials, etc.), knew enough to let sleeping dogs lay undisturbed.

The person who was having the work done on her bath, was also writing a story about the experience for a local glossy magazine, and was trying to cast my higher bid in a poor light (you know how "some" contractors are! They will inflate every price possible) and she never once gave any credence to the personnel safety hazard nor to the working space violation issues I tried to point out.

In the end, the panel remained unchanged and in the same location with the local AHJ's sign off on the permit.

 

[bfd14]

Thank You both for the input....I visited the old home today to find it was a well maintained dwelling with 3 bathrooms. The couple was selling it and the buyers had an home inspection done finding the panel in the bathroom and no GFCI outlet. The service was 200 amp with a 40 circuit panel approx. 30 years old. It was in real good condition. What was very clear to me was the bathroom was put in by a previous owner without permits, because the electrical would have never passed. So I advised the current owner the electrical was in violation but not the problem, it was the bathroom. There option on the buyers demand is to remove bathroom and make it a storage area, problem solved. They have 2 other bathrooms.

 

[Gregg Harris]

Thank You both for the input....I visited the old home today to find it was a well maintained dwelling with 3 bathrooms. The couple was selling it and the buyers had an home inspection done finding the panel in the bathroom and no GFCI outlet. The service was 200 amp with a 40 circuit panel approx. 30 years old. It was in real good condition. What was very clear to me was the bathroom was put in by a previous owner without permits, because the electrical would have never passed. So I advised the current owner the electrical was in violation but not the problem, it was the bathroom. There option on the buyers demand is to remove bathroom and make it a storage area, problem solved. They have 2 other bathrooms.

Added to NEC in 1993 prohibiting panels in bathrooms

240.24

 

[gadfly56]

If an old existing home has a panelboard in the bathroom can they be made to move it to comply with current code without doing any permitted renovations?

In NJ, probably not. If the installation complied with the code at the time it went in you'd be good. If someone wanted to make an "imminent hazard to life" claim they might force it, but probably not without some kind of construction going on. In NJ an inspector has no jurisdiciton unless there is construction (for homes, anyway). In fact, he doesn't have jurisdiction unless a permit has been pulled. If someone had a complaint about illegal construction, about the most they can do is get a stop work order, THEN they make you pull a permit, and NOW they can come in. Sounds crazy, but that's the way it was explained to me.

 

[K8MHZ]

If the home is a rental unit, there may be different rules.

We had to move a service from a bathroom in a rental because the city's rental inspector gigged it. The rules for rentals don't recognize many 'grandfathered' NEC rules here.

All rentals in the city must have TR receptacles, GFCI's on countertops etc., interconnected smokes, proper clearance and location of panelboards (I saw a picture of one in a shower), lights on all exits/entrances and such, even it it was 'code' when installed.

Owner occupied homes do not have such strict rules. For homes, our code is the Michigan Residential Code. For commercial / industrial it is the NEC.

 

[btharmy]

If an old existing home has a panelboard in the bathroom can they be made to move it to comply with current code without doing any permitted renovations?

No.

 

[tortuga]

Added to NEC in 1993 prohibiting panels in bathrooms

240.24

Wow that is interesting you are correct I had to pull out my 1990 book, I would have thought that would have been earlier.