Grid Impedance

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electrics

Senior Member
Hello, I want to learn if it is possible to measure the grid impedance from any point connected to the grid just using Multimeter? ( which has Sufficient voltage and current ratings ) Say I have a transformer connected to a substation which is connected to the national grid. If I try to measure the secondary of this transformer Can I find the total impedance of the whole grid?
 

robbietan

Senior Member
Location
Antipolo City
Hello, I want to learn if it is possible to measure the grid impedance from any point connected to the grid just using Multimeter? ( which has Sufficient voltage and current ratings ) Say I have a transformer connected to a substation which is connected to the national grid. If I try to measure the secondary of this transformer Can I find the total impedance of the whole grid?

no since there are connections on several substations and each substation may have several circuits. the best one could hope for is the circuit impedance as this is a virtual unchangeable line. circuits every so often are changed from one substation to another, and there is no way to know when the next circuit change will happen
 

GoldDigger

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Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Hello, I want to learn if it is possible to measure the grid impedance from any point connected to the grid just using Multimeter? ( which has Sufficient voltage and current ratings ) Say I have a transformer connected to a substation which is connected to the national grid. If I try to measure the secondary of this transformer Can I find the total impedance of the whole grid?
Not unless you can source or sink the power of the entire grid. :)

Any effect of the impedance of the entire grid (if you could agree on what that term should mean in the first place) would be vanishingly small in its effects compared to other purely local resistances that are much higher in value.
What you are asking for is similar to asking whether you can measure the average speed of all traffic in the country by looking hard enough at the speedometer in your car.
 

electrics

Senior Member
so what is the condition to be able to sink or source the grid? Lets assume that all the loads connected to the grid is static nothing changing I mean. So what would you to be able to calculate the impedance of the grid when looked into grid at the coupling point ?
 

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
If I try to measure the secondary of this transformer Can I find the total impedance of the whole grid?

If you take measurements on the secondary and the is no direct connection between the primary and secondary windings....:happyno:
 

electrics

Senior Member
I dont think that the impedance upstream seen does not change so much..I mean it will change slow since this would be a very low impedance...
 

electrics

Senior Member
If you take measurements on the secondary and the is no direct connection between the primary and secondary windings....:happyno:

what do u mean with a connection between primary and secondary? You mean earthing bonding ? Secondly :

then you claim that when you measure the transformer secondary when it is not energised it will give the real secondary impedance but if you measure it when it is measured when connected to the grid so you will get the net impedance of the grid at that point??
 
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Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
POCO may tell you how much fault level is on their power system such as 250 MVA at 11kV, 350 MVA at 22kV (typical values in India). From this, the grid impedance from your supply point may be calculated by
Line voltage 'V' squared/Fault MVA. For example, for 11kV system,
grid impedance=11*11/(250*1000)=0.484 milliohm.
 
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electrics

Senior Member
But when I heard the term power system or grid I understand it as national power system. For india we can assume it to be say 200000 MVA (total power produced instantenously and averagely ) , 250 MVA is so low is not it?
 

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
The high voltage transformer immediately upstream to your supply point limits the fault current from other sources. Hence the MVA value given by POCO is workable.
 

electrics

Senior Member
What I gave as a magnitude is total system power.I mean average power of the national grid system not fault level. I am asking if when looked into the grid from the connection point is it possible to estimate the thevenin equivalent of the power system (national grid)?
 

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
What I gave as a magnitude is total system power.I mean average power of the national grid system not fault level. I am asking if when looked into the grid from the connection point is it possible to estimate the thevenin equivalent of the power system (national grid)?
Yes. It is possible. From the fault level the fault impedance calculated is the grid impedance when looked into the grid from the connection point and is the thevenin equivalent of the power system (national grid) for a given voltage level at your supply point
 

electrics

Senior Member
so just tell me what utility engineer does to give the short circuit data to the end-user to enable him to calculate the short circuit level at the relevant point.? if it is possible to measure the resistance using a multimeter then what he makes is just measuring and saying this is the FAULT MVA?
 

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
so just tell me what utility engineer does to give the short circuit data to the end-user to enable him to calculate the short circuit level at the relevant point.? if it is possible to measure the resistance using a multimeter then what he makes is just measuring and saying this is the FAULT MVA?

Of course the utility engineer does some calculations to ascertain the fault level in the power system. As for your desire to ascertain the fault level using your multimeter on the LV side, a method is described somewhere in this book:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/30560848/Operation-amp-Maintenance-of-Electrical-Equipment
 

electrics

Senior Member
What I am asking is this: I have a multimeter and using this while secondary is alive I can calculate the total impedance of the grid or just the impedance of the secondary?
 

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
What I am asking is this: I have a multimeter and using this while secondary is alive I can calculate the total impedance of the grid or just the impedance of the secondary?
You would be calculating the impedance of the transformer compared to which the grid impedance is negligible.
 
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