33 YEARS OF DOING IT WRONG.

[copper chopper]

I work for a large shop and have been doing this for 27 years, but ounce in a while I work with a new guy that has been doing it for 33 years and they come up with codes they have been doing all there career but dont know why.I was working with this guy who claims that it states in the NEC that when you wire a 3-way switch the hot,switch leg and both travelers have to be the same COLOR.After I stopped laughing I asked him to show me in the code where it states this.He just says its in there, so I bet him lunch that by the end of the week he cant produce an article that supports this.Then I started thinking what if finds one then one of us has been doing switchs wrong for a very long time.oh yea and he says its the same for single pole switches... DO YOU GUYS OF ANY ARTICLES THAT SUPPORT THIS.

 

[augie47]

Other than grounding and grounded conductors, there are very few color limitations/requirements in the NEC...210.5(C) and 200.6 are the only areas that I know of that might involve switches.

 

[fmtjfw]

Sounds like someone's practice or SOP. When running 3-way travelers in a conduit that is exactly what I do. For multiple 3-ways, one color for each pair. But in the code, no way.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Told a guy that I would bet him a dollar that something was going to happen within the next few weeks and he said no thanks, so then I said how about a nickle and he asked how I knew it was going to happen, and I said because I have a pocket full of nickles.:happyyes:

 

[Gregg Harris]

I work for a large shop and have been doing this for 27 years, but ounce in a while I work with a new guy that has been doing it for 33 years and they come up with codes they have been doing all there career but dont know why.I was working with this guy who claims that it states in the NEC that when you wire a 3-way switch the hot,switch leg and both travelers have to be the same COLOR.After I stopped laughing I asked him to show me in the code where it states this.He just says its in there, so I bet him lunch that by the end of the week he cant produce an article that supports this.Then I started thinking what if finds one then one of us has been doing switchs wrong for a very long time.oh yea and he says its the same for single pole switches... DO YOU GUYS OF ANY ARTICLES THAT SUPPORT THIS.

200.7 Use of Insulation of a White or Gray Color or with Three Continuous White Stripes.
(A) General. The following shall be used only for the grounded circuit conductor, unless otherwise permitted in 200.7(B) and (C):
If part of a cable assembly that has the insulation permanently reidentified to indicate its use as an ungrounded conductor by marking tape, painting, or other effective means at its termination and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible. Identification shall encircle the insulation and shall be a color other than white, gray, or green. If used for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops, the reidentified conductor with white or gray insulation or three continuous white stripes shall be used only for the supply to the switch, but not as a return conductor from the switch to the outlet.


404.2 Switch Connections.
(A) Three-Way and Four-Way Switches. Three-way and four-way switches shall be wired so that all switching is done only in the ungrounded circuit conductor. Where in metal raceways or metal-armored cables, wiring between switches and outlets shall be in accordance with 300.20(A).
Exception: Switch loops shall not require a grounded conductor.

 

[jusme123]

200.7 Use of Insulation of a White or Gray Color or with Three Continuous White Stripes.
(A) General. The following shall be used only for the grounded circuit conductor, unless otherwise permitted in 200.7(B) and (C):
If part of a cable assembly that has the insulation permanently reidentified to indicate its use as an ungrounded conductor by marking tape, painting, or other effective means at its termination and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible. Identification shall encircle the insulation and shall be a color other than white, gray, or green. If used for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops, the reidentified conductor with white or gray insulation or three continuous white stripes shall be used only for the supply to the switch, but not as a return conductor from the switch to the outlet.


404.2 Switch Connections.
(A) Three-Way and Four-Way Switches. Three-way and four-way switches shall be wired so that all switching is done only in the ungrounded circuit conductor. Where in metal raceways or metal-armored cables, wiring between switches and outlets shall be in accordance with 300.20(A).
Exception: Switch loops shall not require a grounded conductor.

...and how do you identify the three ungrounded conductors in a 3 phase system?

 

[zbang]

...and how do you identify the three ungrounded conductors in a 3 phase system?

'A', 'B', and '3'. Doesn't everyone do that ?

 

[Cavie]

I work for a large shop and have been doing this for 27 years, but ounce in a while I work with a new guy that has been doing it for 33 years and they come up with codes they have been doing all there career but dont know why.I was working with this guy who claims that it states in the NEC that when you wire a 3-way switch the hot,switch leg and both travelers have to be the same COLOR.After I stopped laughing I asked him to show me in the code where it states this.He just says its in there, so I bet him lunch that by the end of the week he cant produce an article that supports this.Then I started thinking what if finds one then one of us has been doing switchs wrong for a very long time.oh yea and he says its the same for single pole switches... DO YOU GUYS OF ANY ARTICLES THAT SUPPORT THIS.

It's obvious neither of you ever use romex. Look at a piece sometime and explain to me how you would wire a 3'w sw with the same colors! Have I been doing it wrong for 40 years??????

 

[kwired]

...and how do you identify the three ungrounded conductors in a 3 phase system?

By colors, labels, marking, tags, tape, ... pretty much however you want to.

Grounded and grounding conductors are about the only place where specific colors are the rule.

If there is only one voltage system on the premises you don't even have to identify individual phases if you don't want to.

 

[TimK]

Maybe go "Dutch"?

Maybe go "Dutch"?

I work for a large shop and have been doing this for 27 years, but ounce in a while I work with a new guy that has been doing it for 33 years and they come up with codes they have been doing all there career but dont know why.I was working with this guy who claims that it states in the NEC that when you wire a 3-way switch the hot,switch leg and both travelers have to be the same COLOR.After I stopped laughing I asked him to show me in the code where it states this.He just says its in there, so I bet him lunch that by the end of the week he cant produce an article that supports this.Then I started thinking what if finds one then one of us has been doing switchs wrong for a very long time.oh yea and he says its the same for single pole switches... DO YOU GUYS OF ANY ARTICLES THAT SUPPORT THIS.

200.7 (08) On your behave, if I run a cable assembly, (romex 3wire/w grd) for a 3-way, I do not need to reidentify the red wire inside, but on his behave I will have to reidentify the white, of course this is for a three way that is dead-ended.

 

[brian john]

If that is the only code he has wrong I would have no problem with his rantings, but most likely he is messing up in worse ways.

 

[JDB3]

Probably what he was referring to was a local requirement. It was that way in a building that I partially rewired here.

 

[BPoindexter]

I have worked in a few DOD and DOE installations. Their specs at the time (been a while) required all travelers to be Purple. So if we were using B Phase as an example you would have a Red and two Purples if it were a switch drop. I believe now that you have to also run a neutral (grounded) conductor even if it is not used? The only color for phase conductors that I know of required in the NEC is Orange for the High Leg of a Delta High leg system.

 

[Microwatt]

We have some inspectors around here that enforce this and they site 210.5 (C) of the 2011 NEC. If you identify your ungrounded conductors as black, red, blue and that is what is posed at the panelboard then changing to pink or purple is not permited. They haven't started enforcing this for pre-assembled fixture whips but I've gheard of some locations that are.

 

[kwired]

We have some inspectors around here that enforce this and they site 210.5 (C) of the 2011 NEC. If you identify your ungrounded conductors as black, red, blue and that is what is posed at the panelboard then changing to pink or purple is not permited. They haven't started enforcing this for pre-assembled fixture whips but I've gheard of some locations that are.

And if you have multiple voltage systems on the premises, then I agree, but there is no requirement of how to mark it, that is dictated by what you have posted as the identification means, so if you created the identification method then in a way you are actually violating your own creation if you don't follow it.

If you don't have multiple voltatage systems on the premises there is no requirement at all to identify anything except for grounded/grounding conductors.

 

[George Stolz]

I agree. The JW may be applying 210.5 to switchlegs and travelers, and he actually would be correct in doing so. :jawdrop: