Is the NEC the law of the land?

[dicklaxt]

I think it is only a set of guide lines and recommendations for construction, maintenance, fabrication of any and all electrical what ever's and is not required by Law to be 100% adopted and mandated to be Law by all Federal,State,County,City and local jurisdictions. Is that right?

I think it should be "The Law" and in most part probably is but exceptions by facility owners and jurisdictions is often taken. Is That right?

The NEC is often cited to be the ruling document in civil law suites pertaining to liabilities derived from electrical what ever's. Is that right?

This could go on forever.I guess the question is the Title of this post

Stuff to chew on

dick

 

[infinity]

The law is whatever is adopted by the governing body, be it the state, city or other entity. For example the Port Authority of NY and NJ has it's own electrical code which is applicable in their buildings. In many cases these codes are more stringent than the ones adopted by the state. A unified national electrical code might be nice but IMO it will never happen, too many local agencies want their say in what code is adopted in their area.

 

[fmtjfw]

Not the law of the land, but

Not the law of the land, but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Electrical_Code

http://www.mikeholt.com/necadoptionlist.php

The NEC is adopted by states and/or localities in the US. Some adopt it outright as written. Some amend it, their local experts know more about electrical safety than the NFPA committees. Some water it down, typically through lobbying by home builders associations who believe they are better at selling granite in the kitchen than safety throughout the house. Some places add restrictions: Chicago -- no NM.

Once adopted it generally has the force of law.

The NEC is used by most if not all US Government departments for their own construction.

The NEC is adopted by several other countries: Mexico, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Columbia, ...

As of Oct 2012 it is not adopted the following states (by the whole state): AL, AZ, HI, IL, KS, MD, MS, MO, NV

 

[mivey]

I think it should be "The Law"

I would, for the most part, reject a "one size fits all" set of detailed laws. You simply can't put everything down in writing. Base guidelines and common sense should be the law but it is getting harder to find.

 

[K8MHZ]

For res work we (Michigan) adopted the Michigan Residential Building Code state wide. Mostly, it contains references to the NEC.

For commercial / industrial, the NEC is used.

The state makes up the definitions of residential and so on. It's pretty simple.

There is no more localized rule making. Before the state outlawed it, every jurisdiction had it's own set of rules. One city, Grand Rapids, even had it's own testing and certification. Your state license was no good there.

Now it's been changed and I like the changes.

An electrical system suitable for longevity in Michigan is probably not the same as one in New Mexico. The idea of each state being able to decide which rules to use is a good one.

I think improper enforcement of the rules, what ever the LEGAL ones are, is a much bigger problem than any inconsistencies posed by state defined differences in the actual rules.

 

[iceworm]

And we have this pesky thing called a Constitution. Paraphrased: And all powers not specifically given to the federal government are reserved for the states.

I don't recall that the founding fathers had any issue with us using the internet by candlelight. :roll:

ice

 

[fmtjfw]

One simple argument for a single set of rules:

One simple argument for a single set of rules:

It makes it easier for electricians, inspectors, and engineers to work, inspect, and design for more than one state without having to use different electrical codes.

 

[Cavie]

I would, for the most part, reject a "one size fits all" set of detailed laws. You simply can't put everything down in writing. Base guidelines and common sense should be the law but it is getting harder to find.

Did you fall down and bump your head?:lol::blink:

 

[hurk27]

The NEC is a model code written as a guide for adopting into law at state and local level, until it has been included into adopted local or state law it is not enforceable as a law.

Here in Indiana we fought to install a state wide code system to eliminate the problems of having different codes in each and every town as there was very little to no reason to have these differences. but country wide we can see there are reasons to have differences and some include things like Hurricanes, Earthquakes, and other phenomenon that can make requirements for safe installations different, would it be fair to make the whole country meet the requirements of Hurricanes or Earthquakes?

Another item is the cost upon the ones who have to pay for the work, the customer, as the people of that state they have the right to choose through legislation what they want imposed upon them, and we see this in codes that are put in these model codes that offer very little results in actual safety versus cost, this was found true with AFCI's and a few other items that Indiana amended out of our laws.

Now should we be allowed to choose what we want into law, I think the very nature of our freedoms depends upon having this choice, if we do away or allow these choices to be done away with then we have given up these very freedoms that our Fore Fathers built this country upon.

We should always be allowed to live as dangerously as we wish, it is part of our life and heritage, many of the things we so enjoy in life can be and many times are dangerous, everything from skiing, to parachuting, rafting, to base jumping, bungee jumping, even foot ball could be seen as dangerous, would we want to be driven around by only "professional drivers" and not have the freedom of jumping in to a car any time we want to go somewhere?

I don't know about you guys but I do not want to be put into a padded room for the rest of my life, it is the "common sense" that was taught to me at a very young age that lets me know what I can do safely, and this "common sense" is what has slowly been going away because of laws that have padded our world, we think we are so protected that we fail to teach our kids of the dangers of life anymore.

People we live in a dangerous world, its a fact, now learn the common sense that will keep us safe!!!
We don't need laws to do this.

 

[iceworm]

:thumbsup:
Go Hurk

Right on

:thumbsup:

ice

 

[K8MHZ]

We should always be allowed to live as dangerously as we wish,

Well, being trained in a state that is fairly strict with code enforcement and MiOSHA rules, then going to Indiana to work at a Mittal plant, it seems like lotsa people in Indiana feel the same way you do.

Me.....I prefer not to have such a huge amount of danger as part of my job.

 

[iceworm]

... it seems like lotsa people in Indiana feel the same way you do.

Me.....I prefer not to have such a huge amount of danger as part of my job.

Hummm....
Are you saying the state of Indiania has no law enacting he NEC?
Are you saying the state has a law enacting the NEC, but it is not enforced?

Here in Indiana we fought to install a state wide code system to eliminate the problems of having different codes in each and every town as there was very little to no reason to have these differences.

It looks to me like hurk didn't say anything like that. Not being enforced is a different issue.

However, you think that having a one-size-fits-all federal law will increase safety? If so, which code do you want? New York? Chicago? Current NEC?

Once we get this fereral law, you do know your taxes are going to pay for a federal inspector to fly out to all of the villages for every cabin going up? I think I can guarentee the fee will be flat across the US. God forbid we should choose to discriminate against the people that choose to live on Little Diomede.

Keep in mind that I am likely considered radical. I think a literal interpertation the Constitution and Bill of Rights is an excellent Law of the Land.

ice

 

[roger]

In NC the NEC with a few amendments is the adopted code, click here to read the amendments

Roger

 

[Steviechia2]

And we have this pesky thing called a Constitution. Paraphrased: And all powers not specifically given to the federal government are reserved for the states.

I don't recall that the founding fathers had any issue with us using the internet by candlelight. :roll:

ice

I agree. :thumbsup:http://forums.mikeholt.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

 

[hurk27]

Well, being trained in a state that is fairly strict with code enforcement and MiOSHA rules, then going to Indiana to work at a Mittal plant, it seems like lotsa people in Indiana feel the same way you do.

Me.....I prefer not to have such a huge amount of danger as part of my job.

And that statement "I prefer" is what makes it nice to have a Constitution that allows us these choices

Not sure if you are saying that you went to work at Arcelor Mittal?
I applied with Arcelor Mittal and passed all their test, but that was about as far as it went, basically got a letter saying I was over qualified go figure, U.S. Steel hired me and I now work for them as an MTE and hope to move up the chain, been there for about 4 months now, I love my job there as it is very challenging, and as for safety, they have one of the strictest safety programs I have ever seen, and an endless amount of training to keep us up with the very latest in safety.

There if you break a cardinal safety rule you will be fired on the spot, that and the motivation of not wanting to die just yet keeps most there on the ball as to following the rules.

October 30th I go for Arc Flash training so it is great to see a company serious about safety.

Yes it can be a dangerous place to work if you don't use some common sense, but I'm glad I have the given right to be able to chose to work there.

And the common sense to keep me alive and safe