LABOR for with and withour conduit

[Alwayslearningelec]

I know I asked this before but I can't believe how w/o conduit is MORE labor than pulling in conduit...how the heck. Even coaxial cable is more labore NOT in conduit(plenum)


Copper Cable - UTP - PVC / Plenum Indoor In Conduit
4 Pair * X 7.00 8.75 10.50 M
25 Pair * X 8.00 10.00 12.00 M
50 Pair X 10.00 12.50 15.00 M
100 Pair X 12.00 15.00 18.00 M
200 Pair X 16.00 20.00 24.00 M
300 Pair X 24.00 30.00 36.00 M


Copper Cable - UTP - PVC / Plenum Indoor w/o Conduit
4 Pair * X 14.00 17.50 21.00 M
25 Pair * X 16.00 20.00 24.00 M
50 Pair X 20.00 25.00 30.00 M
100 Pair X 24.00 30.00 36.00 M
200 Pair X 32.00 40.00 48.00 M
300 Pair X 48.00 60.00 72.00 M

 

[infinity]

The cable that's installed without conduit will need to be supported every few feet. The cable in the raceway will just get pulled in.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

The cable that's installed without conduit will need to be supported every few feet. The cable in the raceway will just get pulled in.

Yes but that(supporting) is NOT in the labor unit. Ty wraps, J-Hooks etc. are separate.

 

[ritelec]

Yes but that(supporting) is NOT in the labor unit. Ty wraps, J-Hooks etc. are separate.

Don't know this program.......but as far as the real work is concerned, it makes sense.

Even if you did not support the wire/cable, you would still have to pull from point to point to point to point up the ladder down the ladder up the ladder down the ladder,
(unless you used a drag and additional pulls are like a pulling a pipeless system).

Pipe is as you know, in one side and out the other.......

How do these programs know your intensions and the job...............a reckon they might but...geez..............

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Don't know this program.......but as far as the real work is concerned, it makes sense.

Even if you did not support the wire/cable, you would still have to pull from point to point to point to point up the ladder down the ladder up the ladder down the ladder,
(unless you used a drag and additional pulls are like a pulling a pipeless system).

Pipe is as you know, in one side and out the other.......

How do these programs know your intensions and the job...............a reckon they might but...geez..............

Those are labor units from NECA MLU book. I don't fully understand what you mean about the pulling cable that is not in conduit. If you are pulling in conduit you will have pull/ junction boxes at no more than 150' usually so why would that pull be less intensive than pulling 150' run not in conduit? Thanks? But your saying there are more pull points when it is out of conduit?

 

[wolfman56]

I would bet that the pulling in conduit means just that, only. You need to add the installation of the conduit to the equation.

 

[cmreschke]

Do your labor units account for installing the conduit as well? Supporting conduit or cable should be a non factor as you have to support both some more than others yes, but imo I think it is less labor intensive to install one cable than it is to install one conduit than pull cable thru the conduit. However when you are pulling multiple ckts then it is more effective installing conduit.

 

[cmreschke]

Snap a little late.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

We are talking about the labor to ONLY PULL the cable.... Either through conduit or "free air"( not in conduit)

 

[cmreschke]

Right but you can't make the same comparison. It's like apples and oranges. It is Def less time consuming to just pull through a conduit but someone had to install the conduit, which takes time(hours).

 

[Strathead]

We are talking about the labor to ONLY PULL the cable.... Either through conduit or "free air"( not in conduit)

Without sarcasm, because I read and respond to many of your questions, you need to get out on a couple of projects and put the tools on! The difference between installing cabling free air and in conduit is very fundamental and if you get "hands on" experience, you will clearly see. I will explain, but I am serious about "wearing your tools!"

By the way boxes are only required by spec, or by the degrees of bends, never by the footage.

down the hall, right turn, down hall, right turn, in to the telephone closet for example:

In conduit... one guy pushes fish tape, other guy sets up reels or boxes for pull. One guy pulls, one guy feeds string or rope. One guy stands around, one guy makes up head. One guy pulls, one guy feeds. End of story.

In free air. One guy sets up reels, one guy gets ladders the more the better! One guy gets on ladder at the first hanger. the other guy gets on ladder arms length away, then puls wire, moves ladder, pulls wire, moves ladder, until he reaches the corner, or the cable snags prior. At the corner, he can no longer continue, so he pulls slack. Then gets down "flakes out" the slack finds it needs 50 more feet and flakes off more until he has enough to get in the closet. then ladders move to corner and repeat first until the next corner. Oops, don't have enough cable flaked out. Move the ladders back to the first corner and try flake out more. Finish to the closet and find out that you pulled too much. Decide whether to cut off the excess or expend more labor to pull some back.


It can actually be much more complex. That is why I suggest the first. part. Another lesson you should learn this way, is the part that people with too much field experience usually suffer from. When a good journeyman is asked how long something takes, they tend to think of the time from the bottom of the ladder to intalling the cover screw. They forget about unloading, unboxing, pee break, getting the tools out, running extension cords, moving material, cleaning up (a very overlooked step). So how long it actually takes is much more than our instinct first tells us.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Without sarcasm, because I read and respond to many of your questions, you need to get out on a couple of projects and put the tools on! The difference between installing cabling free air and in conduit is very fundamental and if you get "hands on" experience, you will clearly see. I will explain, but I am serious about "wearing your tools!"

By the way boxes are only required by spec, or by the degrees of bends, never by the footage.

down the hall, right turn, down hall, right turn, in to the telephone closet for example:

In conduit... one guy pushes fish tape, other guy sets up reels or boxes for pull. One guy pulls, one guy feeds string or rope. One guy stands around, one guy makes up head. One guy pulls, one guy feeds. End of story.

In free air. One guy sets up reels, one guy gets ladders the more the better! One guy gets on ladder at the first hanger. the other guy gets on ladder arms length away, then puls wire, moves ladder, pulls wire, moves ladder, until he reaches the corner, or the cable snags prior. At the corner, he can no longer continue, so he pulls slack. Then gets down "flakes out" the slack finds it needs 50 more feet and flakes off more until he has enough to get in the closet. then ladders move to corner and repeat first until the next corner. Oops, don't have enough cable flaked out. Move the ladders back to the first corner and try flake out more. Finish to the closet and find out that you pulled too much. Decide whether to cut off the excess or expend more labor to pull some back.


It can actually be much more complex. That is why I suggest the first. part. Another lesson you should learn this way, is the part that people with too much field experience usually suffer from. When a good journeyman is asked how long something takes, they tend to think of the time from the bottom of the ladder to intalling the cover screw. They forget about unloading, unboxing, pee break, getting the tools out, running extension cords, moving material, cleaning up (a very overlooked step). So how long it actually takes is much more than our instinct first tells us.

Actually spec do sometime specify " not to exceed" footages for a pullboxes.

THanks I appreciate the info....I really do

 

[Strathead]

Actually spec do sometime specify " not to exceed" footages for a pullboxes.

That was what I meant to imply about specs.

 

[ritelec]

Those are labor units from NECA MLU book.

Then it must be truth..................

I don't fully understand what you mean about the pulling cable that is not in conduit. If you are pulling in conduit you will have pull/ junction boxes at no more than 150' usually so why would that pull be less intensive than pulling 150' run not in conduit?

Depending on how you set it up, it may or may not be.

But your saying there are more pull points when it is out of conduit?

Depending on how you set it up there may or may not be.


Multi conductors go in one side of the conduit and out of the other.
Multi conductors draping through an area may have to get taped (and tape removed maybe), get caught, twisted...........

They are two separate installs....................