Is a GFI required

[K_Buz]

I was just at a friend's house consulting on a basement remodel where I encountered something I don't think I have before.

(We are on the 2008 code cycle)

He is boxing out the sump pump in a 2'x2'x2' area with the top being an access. The sump pump box out is in a finished part of the basement. Does the recept for the sump need to be a GFI? I guess it comes down to...is that 2x2x2 box considered unfinished basement?

 

[LEO2854]

I was just at a friend's house consulting on a basement remodel where I encountered something I don't think I have before.

(We are on the 2008 code cycle)

He is boxing out the sump pump in a 2'x2'x2' area with the top being an access. The sump pump box out is in a finished part of the basement. Does the recept for the sump need to be a GFI? I guess it comes down to...is that 2x2x2 box considered unfinished basement?

210.8 (A) (5)

(5) Unfinished basements ? for purposes of this section,
unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of
the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited
to storage areas, work areas, and the like

 

[svh19044]

I was just at a friend's house consulting on a basement remodel where I encountered something I don't think I have before.

(We are on the 2008 code cycle)

He is boxing out the sump pump in a 2'x2'x2' area with the top being an access. The sump pump box out is in a finished part of the basement. Does the recept for the sump need to be a GFI? I guess it comes down to...is that 2x2x2 box considered unfinished basement?

I would say that your inspector will give you two options...one makes more sense than the other...

AFCI or GFCI.

Pick the GFCI. In my experience with inspectors, yes, it needs to be GFCI protected if cord connected.

 

[donf]

Is a GFI required

I believe it comes down to this, is the box for the sump pump in a "Finished basement room", if so, then no, a GFCI receptacle or breaker is not required,

However, if the box is installed in an "unfinished space", then yes, the circuit must be protected by a GFC!.

It where the box is, not the area inside the box.

 

[cmreschke]

I would agree gfci or afci.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I believe it comes down to this, is the box for the sump pump in a "Finished basement room", if so, then no, a GFCI receptacle or breaker is not required,

However, if the box is installed in an "unfinished space", then yes, the circuit must be protected by a GFC!.

It where the box is, not the area inside the box.

I disagree. It is not about where the pump is installed, but about where the outlet is located. It sounds like the outlet is in a finished area, so no GFCI should be required. I also would not want something as critical as a sump pump to be on a GFCI outlet either. An undetected nuisance trip is no longer just a nuisance.

 

[svh19044]

I disagree. It is not about where the pump is installed, but about where the outlet is located. It sounds like the outlet is in a finished area, so no GFCI should be required. I also would not want something as critical as a sump pump to be on a GFCI outlet either. An undetected nuisance trip is no longer just a nuisance.

In which case a finished basement is required to have afci protection. IN my experience, you are more likely to experience nuisance tripping with the afci. Pick your battles carefully applies to this argument.

 

[stickboy1375]

An undetected nuisance trip is no longer just a nuisance.

Buy an alarm... not a big deal... I think a broken ground pin is far worse than this so called phantom nuisance trip I hear about... for the record, my sump pump has been on a GFCI for over 5 years without an issue, along with my basement freezer, fish tank, and water softener....

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Buy an alarm... not a big deal... I think a broken ground pin is far worse than this so called phantom nuisance trip I hear about...

Great idea. We'll just plug that alarm into the second receptacle of the GFCI.

It was a simple comment. There is no reason for you to have a chip on your shoulder.

 

[svh19044]

Buy an alarm... not a big deal... I think a broken ground pin is far worse than this so called phantom nuisance trip I hear about... for the record, my sump pump has been on a GFCI for over 5 years without an issue, along with my basement freezer, fish tank, and water softener....

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around, does it make a sound?

The alarm is useless if nobody is home. I agree that a tripping GFCI is not normal, and that alone is cause for concern if your sump is tripping it. Perhaps it might be time for a new sump pump if that's the case.

 

[stickboy1375]

Great idea. We'll just plug that alarm into the second receptacle of the GFCI.

It was a simple comment. There is no reason for you to have a chip on your shoulder.

Sorry you took offense, my point being, GFCI's are okay to use... not sure why everyone makes up these phantom nuisance issues...


Also, I love how people add emotion to black and white words. cracks me up every time.

 

[stickboy1375]

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around, does it make a sound?

The alarm is useless if nobody is home. I agree that a tripping GFCI is not normal, and that alone is cause for concern if your sump is tripping it. Perhaps it might be time for a new sump pump if that's the case.

And if the POCO fails to deliver you service, you're still stuck...

 

[frankft2000]

Pass and Seymour as a TR GFCI with a built in alarm. $16 and change!

 

[acrwc10]

I'd bet if you look hard enough you could find a pump that could be hard wired, no more issue.

 

[tom baker]

This sump pump gfci issue comes up a lot, I am beginning to think its an urban legend. I also have a sump pump, and exercise machine(s) plugged into a GFCI in my damp basement, never a trip.
And at work, I have two water sample pumps, 1/4 hp submersibles, that are under 4 to 6 feet of water all the time, are on a GFCI, no trips with one exception. The exception was someone had spliced a cord on one, the splice leaked and water got into the pump, dead short.
GFCIs just don't nuisance trip, if they do trip is a GF.

 

[acrwc10]

This sump pump gfci issue comes up a lot, I am beginning to think its an urban legend. I also have a sump pump, and exercise machine(s) plugged into a GFCI in my damp basement, never a trip.
And at work, I have two water sample pumps, 1/4 hp submersibles, that are under 4 to 6 feet of water all the time, are on a GFCI, no trips with one exception. The exception was someone had spliced a cord on one, the splice leaked and water got into the pump, dead short.
GFCIs just don't nuisance trip, if they do trip is a GF.

I have seen "Off Brand" GFCI receptacles nuisance trip, aka "cheapo gfi". The "name brand" Leviton, Legrand, Hubble don't "nuisance trip", if they trip start checking for a ground fault.

 

[iwire]

I'd bet if you look hard enough you could find a pump that could be hard wired, no more issue.

I don't see any issue to start with, a sump pump will operate fine on a GFCI. My own does.

If it trips the GFCI that is a sign the pump is starting to fail.

 

[acrwc10]

I don't see any issue to start with, a sump pump will operate fine on a GFCI. My own does.

If it trips the GFCI that is a sign the pump is starting to fail.

All I am pointing out is, if you hard wire the pump it will be solidly grounded and a gfi is adding little more protection.

 

[stickboy1375]

I don't see any issue to start with, a sump pump will operate fine on a GFCI. My own does.

If it trips the GFCI that is a sign the pump is starting to fail.

I agree, the problem I have is that people "think" that when a GFCI does its job, they call it a nuisance... With that logic in mind, why don't people call out circuit breakers when they trip a "Nuisance"? If you're going to skip out on the GFCI protection on a sump pump, you might as well take it to the next level and skip out on the OCP so that doesn't interfere either. Okay, done with my rant....

 

[iwire]

I agree, the problem I have is that people "think" that when a GFCI does its job, they call it a nuisance... With that logic in mind, why don't people call out circuit breakers when they trip a "Nuisance"? If you're going to skip out on the GFCI protection on a sump pump, you might as well take it to the next level and skip out on the OCP so that doesn't interfere either. Okay, done with my rant....

That is exactly my thinking as well.

It always surprises me that the same people who would never in a million years install a larger overcurrent device to 'fix' a tripping breaker don't think twice about removing a GFCI because it trips.:?:huh: