Ground crimp damaging wires -- what's wrong?

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DavidTu

Member
Location
Seattle, WA
Usually used Greenies but decided to try ground crimps (in this case #310 sleeve by GB). I used a Klein crimp tool's non-insul crimp, which has a small (sharpish) nib that seems to damage the wires. I did a test and cut open a sample crimp and found that the nib had compromised the wire and led to easy failure by moving the wire a bit. What tool should I be using and/or what technique will avoid the trouble?

I wanted to use these for multigang boxes as I prefer not to loop device to device w/ one pigtail and it seems like good use of the existing egc's w/o having to splice in multiple pigtails.
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
DavidTu said:
Usually used Greenies but decided to try ground crimps (in this case #310 sleeve by GB). I used a Klein crimp tool's non-insul crimp, which has a small (sharpish) nib that seems to damage the wires. I did a test and cut open a sample crimp and found that the nib had compromised the wire and led to easy failure by moving the wire a bit. What tool should I be using and/or what technique will avoid the trouble?

I wanted to use these for multigang boxes as I prefer not to loop device to device w/ one pigtail and it seems like good use of the existing egc's w/o having to splice in multiple pigtails.
Click to expand...

I use these linesman pliers for those crimps and they work well..:thumbsup:

D2000-9NE-CR.jpg
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
DavidTu said:
These are the ones I was using.

http://www.service.kleintools.com/T...ls STRIPPERS-CRIMPERS-CRCTNINSIN/Product/1005

LEO2854's seem like the nib is less sharp.

Are the ones I am using perhaps only meant for terminal connectors not the cylindrical crimp sleeves?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

My guess is that they are not meant for the sleeves - especially with solid conductors.

I have never liked the crimp sleeves - pulled too many existing ones apart without use of any tools - maybe they were improperly installed IDK.
 
tkb

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
infinity said:
Funny that tool is made by Ideal. Does GB actually require a specific tool to be used with their 310 crimps? I couldn't find a specific GB 310 tool.
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Who cares that Ideal makes it?
A crimp sleeve is a crimp sleeve.
The Buchanan four way crimper is specifically designed for crimp sleeves.
A tried and true tool that has been around for at least 40-50 years. I got mine about 1975.

Why would GB even sell these and not a tool designed for them unless they intend for you to use whatever tools would work.

Maybe smashing it with a rock would be listed for this crimp?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I think many might be suprised how many tools are made by one company and branded with another company logo.

That same tool possibly is only made by one company and has several names that are branded on it.
 
tkb

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
kwired said:
I think many might be suprised how many tools are made by one company and branded with another company logo.

That same tool possibly is only made by one company and has several names that are branded on it.
Click to expand...

Ideal purchased the Buchanan name years ago, but still sell the Buchanan line.
I have never seen the sleeve crimp tool listed under another brand.

You can still get the Buchanan sleeves and snap-on covers, also the rubber diaper covers.
When I started in the trade we used Buchanan crimp sleeves for all splices and used the snap-on covers.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
tkb said:
Ideal purchased the Buchanan name years ago, but still sell the Buchanan line.
I have never seen the sleeve crimp tool listed under another brand.

You can still get the Buchanan sleeves and snap-on covers, also the rubber diaper covers.
When I started in the trade we used Buchanan crimp sleeves for all splices and used the snap-on covers.
Click to expand...

And they very possibly make the sleeves with the GB name on the package.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
infinity said:
Funny that tool is made by Ideal. Does GB actually require a specific tool to be used with their 310 crimps? I couldn't find a specific GB 310 tool.
Click to expand...

tkb said:
Who cares that Ideal makes it?
A crimp sleeve is a crimp sleeve.
The Buchanan four way crimper is specifically designed for crimp sleeves.
A tried and true tool that has been around for at least 40-50 years. I got mine about 1975.

Why would GB even sell these and not a tool designed for them unless they intend for you to use whatever tools would work.

Maybe smashing it with a rock would be listed for this crimp?
Click to expand...

IMO the combination of sleeve and crimper should be listed to be used together. For what it's worth the OP stated that his crimper was damaging the conductors. Maybe a rock would work better. :roll:
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
infinity said:
IMO the combination of sleeve and crimper should be listed to be used together. For what it's worth the OP stated that his crimper was damaging the conductors. Maybe a rock would work better. :roll:
Click to expand...

And the crimper he showed is a different type and probably is not listed to be used together with the sleeves he is using. The Buchanan and Ideal models (that are likely the same thing) may be (probably are) listed to use with the GB sleeves.
 
D

DavidTu

Member
Location
Seattle, WA
On the GB website their hand tools PDF only has mention of the #310 for this tool, which looks to be not much different from the generic crimper I was using, or other ones in the same catalog (http://www.gardnerbender.com/products/hand_tools.html). The back of the package of the #310 has the GB-5000A listed as the appropriate tool, but I have not been able to find this in store or online or on their catalog. No idea.

I am going to get the Buchanon tool. Thanks so much for the help everyone.
 

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meternerd

Senior Member
Location
Athol, ID
Occupation
retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
Are you using solid or stranded wire? I've never had much luck crimping any kind of connector on solid wire. But I've been crimping insulated butt splice connectors for years with the T &B crimper that is similar to the Klein crimper and have had no problems. When I was in the nuclear power industry, we were required to use calibrated ratchet type crimpers that left a small set of "nibs" on the insulated barrel to identify which tool was used. Wrong tool meant cut it off and do it over (if you had enough wire). I think that was overkill!
 
C

cmreschke

Senior Member
Also one other thing to check is what your crimp is made of. Buchanons are made of copper and the four point crimp tool which is required for a buchanon per its instructions crimp those easily. However a pt 80 which I believe is made by t and b is made of copper colored or coated steel and they will allow you to use just regular crimpers. I have seen the p.t.80 damage a buchanon 4 point crimper. You can feel the difference when trying to crimp a pt compared to a buchanon. That's my two cents for what its worth.
 
D

DavidTu

Member
Location
Seattle, WA
cowboyjwc said:
I've used nothing but the tool in this pic for over 35 years and never had a problem.
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Cowboy, are you using the forward or rearward crimp opening when using this one? I have since posting this tried to use the opening w/o the nib (ie. the rearward one) and it seems to work better at not damaging the wires, but it does flatten out the crimp sleeve so not sure if that's a good enough connection or not. Seem ok though. How do you do it? If you are using the nib, are you just applying light pressure? Maybe I was overdoing the squeeze w/ the nib?
 
cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
DavidTu said:
Cowboy, are you using the forward or rearward crimp opening when using this one? I have since posting this tried to use the opening w/o the nib (ie. the rearward one) and it seems to work better at not damaging the wires, but it does flatten out the crimp sleeve so not sure if that's a good enough connection or not. Seem ok though. How do you do it? If you are using the nib, are you just applying light pressure? Maybe I was overdoing the squeeze w/ the nib?
Click to expand...

I always used the rearward crimp. I might not have got a good look at the pic, but mine has a nib on both, just one is bigger than the other, the little one would do as you describe, so that's why I always used the bigger one. And no you don't have to smash it, just pinch it down and then check it like you would a wire nut.
 
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