CSST

[Gac66610]

Been skimming through some old threads on this subject, biggest discussion seems to be, where to bond the CSST to ie. panel, main disconnect, some even thought a ground rod by the service entrance ( or just saw the that one, and failed it)

Question, what is the best way to bond this? #6 from panel to a CSST coupling, to the closest black pipe (normally by furnace, water heater) or to the gas entrance?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO, you can run from the main service panel to the black pipe or to any connector of the CSST. Do not connect to the pipe itself. Generally here is a short piece of black iron where it enters the building so I tie to that.

 

[pete m.]

The only correct way to bond CSST is per the manufacturers instructions.

Pete

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The only correct way to bond CSST is per the manufacturers instructions.

Pete

I think the op is saying that the manufacturers are not clear about where to terminate.

 

[pete m.]

I think the op is saying that the manufacturers are not clear about where to terminate.

I agree some are not and some also seem to change their requirement depending on which day of the week it happens to be.

Pete

 

[rcarroll]

From the Fuel Gas Code: CSST gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the the gas service enters the building.
'09 IFGC 310.1.1
That should clarify things.

 

[raider1]

From the Fuel Gas Code: CSST gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the the gas service enters the building.
'09 IFGC 310.1.1
That should clarify things.

I agree, and good post.

The 2009 IRC has the same requirement as does the 2009 IFGC.

Chris

 

[don_resqcapt19]

While I understand the bonding is required by other codes, the reason it is not required by the NEC is because no one could provide any technical substiation to CMP 5 as to how the bonding could pevent the holes caused by nearby lightning strikes.

 

[Gac66610]

From the Fuel Gas Code: CSST gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the the gas service enters the building.
'09 IFGC 310.1.1
That should clarify things.

Yes it does! Thanks for that post, figured it was in some code somewhere just wasn't sure which.
All i have to do is convince some inspectors of it. One jurisdiction keeps telling me closest point to the panel. (shortest path to ground)
I'll take the "09 IFGC 310.1.1" give that to them see what they say
Would have replied earlier, had one of those "while you're here" jobs this morning

 

[Gac66610]

While I understand the bonding is required by other codes, the reason it is not required by the NEC is because no one could provide any technical substiation to CMP 5 as to how the bonding could pevent the holes caused by nearby lightning strikes.

If it doesn't get bonded, would that be better. Find a way in appliances to not allow the gas pipe to bond with appliance wiring so lightning would not
look at the gas pipe as a travel path?

 

[Gac66610]

Looks to me the consensus is to be bond from electric service to gas service entrance and IFGC

 

[Dennis Alwon]

From the Fuel Gas Code: CSST gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the the gas service enters the building.
'09 IFGC 310.1.1
That should clarify things.

That is usually where I bond to but I did not realize there was a gas code on it.

I also found this

NFPA 54: Section 7.13.2
The 2009 edition of NFPA 54 was approved by ANSI on September 5, 2008. The 2009 editions of the ICC International Fuel Gas Code and the IAPMO Uniform Plumbing Code also have exactly the same language and requirements. The latest editions of these codes require the
following:
7.13.1 Pipe and Tubing Other Than CSST. Each aboveground portion of a gas piping system other than CSST that is likely to become energized shall be electrically continuous and bonded to an effective ground-fault current path. Gas piping other than CSST shall be considered to be bonded when it is connected to appliances that are connected to the appliance grounding conductor of the circuit supplying that appliance.
7.13.2 CSST. CSST gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall not be smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.This requirement should be enforced on all CSST brands and installations regardless of the fuel gas code in effect within the state, or the particular edition of the state code, and in addition to other gas piping requirements that are stipulated within the state fuel gas code. This is a selfimposed requirement stated through the CSA standard and listing, and the installation instructions of each manufacturer. In other words, compliance with the 2009 NFPA 54 should be in effect for all CSST brands for all installations in all states starting September 5, 2008.
There were no exemptions included or implied by these bonding requirements.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The last post brings up an issue. Omegaflex makes a CSST called counterstrike that does not require special requirements for bonding however the above articles seem to state that they must be bonded differently. I have used the counterstrike but I did bond it just for precautions.

 

[raider1]

While I understand the bonding is required by other codes, the reason it is not required by the NEC is because no one could provide any technical substiation to CMP 5 as to how the bonding could pevent the holes caused by nearby lightning strikes.

Correct, I talked with Chris Porter who sits on CMP5 about this and she told me that the people that are pushing this first tried to get this accepted by CMP5 but their substantiation was lacking. So they figured they would go a different route and get it accepted by the ICC group which passed this change without any substantiation.

Chris

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If it doesn't get bonded, would that be better. Find a way in appliances to not allow the gas pipe to bond with appliance wiring so lightning would not
look at the gas pipe as a travel path?

The issue is current punching holes in the wall of the tube. If there is not enough current no hole is made. How does giving it a better path to ground limit the current? In my opinion a better path to ground makes the problem worse, not better.

 

[raider1]

The last post brings up an issue. Omegaflex makes a CSST called counterstrike that does not require special requirements for bonding however the above articles seem to state that they must be bonded differently. I have used the counterstrike but I did bond it just for precautions.

The I-Codes contain provisions that provide for the use of alternate materials and provisions when it can be determined by the Building Official that equivalent protection to the code rule is provided by the alternate methods or equipment.

This provision could be used by a Building Official to waive the bonding requirement if the Official felt the design and listing information was adequate to show that no bonding is necessary.

Chris

 

[don_resqcapt19]

A proposal (5-172) for the 2014 code to require this bonding was rejected at the panel meeting with the following panel statement. This proposal would have required a bond sized based on the service conductors and T250.66 for all gas piping, both traditional and CSST.

Insufficient technical substantiation was provided to demonstrate a need for raising the level of bonding required. Down stream fittings are not defined in the NEC and their ability to conduct safely the current imposed upon them is unknown. The NEC does not address lightning protection issues.

 

[texie]

While I understand the bonding is required by other codes, the reason it is not required by the NEC is because no one could provide any technical substiation to CMP 5 as to how the bonding could pevent the holes caused by nearby lightning strikes.

I think CMP 5 has point. Being originally from S. Florida where lightning strikes are very common, it is common practice to run copper water and A/C refrigerent lines under slab on grade (prevalant construction there). Occasionally we would see perferated pipes under the slab in buildings after a strike.

 

[Gac66610]

The last post brings up an issue. Omegaflex makes a CSST called counterstrike that does not require special requirements for bonding however the above articles seem to state that they must be bonded differently. I have used the counterstrike but I did bond it just for precautions.

I'm confused with "bonded differently"
What i read is bonded the same

 

[Gac66610]

Don - correct me if i'm wrong, do you believe that bonding the gas might let lightning see it better?(lack of better words)
or is it bonded or not bonded won't help the CSST from pitting either way the CSST is too fragile and shouldn't be used (that would solve this issue)