Raceway supported J-Box??

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pippen429

Member
Location
san diego
I might be overanalyzing this but I'm wondering if it's possible to support a j-box ONLY by it's entering conduits (EMT). According to 314.23 (E) it sounds like it is but I just need clarification.

314.23 (E) Raceway Supported Enclosure, Without Devices,
Luminaires, or Lampholders. An enclosure that does not
contain a device(s) other than splicing devices or support a
luminaire(s), lampholder, or other equipment and is supported
by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm3
(100 in.3) in size. It shall have threaded entries or have
hubs identified for the purpose. It shall be supported by two
or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or
hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 900 mm (3 ft) of
the enclosure, or within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure if
all conduit entries are on the same side.

Could the "enclosure" be a standard 4s box? It sounds like it only needs 2 conduits entering the box in order to consider the box supported, as long as the conduits are supported within 3 feet? If an inspector called you on this, who would win the battle? Thanks in advance and sorry if this is a stupid question.
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
pippen429 said:
I might be overanalyzing this but I'm wondering if it's possible to support a j-box ONLY by it's entering conduits (EMT). According to 314.23 (E) it sounds like it is but I just need clarification.

314.23 (E) Raceway Supported Enclosure, Without Devices,
Luminaires, or Lampholders. An enclosure that does not
contain a device(s) other than splicing devices or support a
luminaire(s), lampholder, or other equipment and is supported
by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm3
(100 in.3) in size. It shall have threaded entries or have
hubs identified for the purpose. It shall be supported by two
or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or
hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 900 mm (3 ft) of
the enclosure, or within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure if
all conduit entries are on the same side.

Could the "enclosure" be a standard 4s box? It sounds like it only needs 2 conduits entering the box in order to consider the box supported, as long as the conduits are supported within 3 feet? If an inspector called you on this, who would win the battle? Thanks in advance and sorry if this is a stupid question.
Click to expand...
\

Note the wording
 
tkb

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
pippen429 said:
I might be overanalyzing this but I'm wondering if it's possible to support a j-box ONLY by it's entering conduits (EMT). According to 314.23 (E) it sounds like it is but I just need clarification.

314.23 (E) Raceway Supported Enclosure, Without Devices,
Luminaires, or Lampholders. An enclosure that does not
contain a device(s) other than splicing devices or support a
luminaire(s), lampholder, or other equipment and is supported
by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm3
(100 in.3) in size. It shall have threaded entries or have
hubs identified for the purpose. It shall be supported by two
or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or
hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 900 mm (3 ft) of
the enclosure, or within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure if
all conduit entries are on the same side.

Could the "enclosure" be a standard 4s box? It sounds like it only needs 2 conduits entering the box in order to consider the box supported, as long as the conduits are supported within 3 feet? If an inspector called you on this, who would win the battle? Thanks in advance and sorry if this is a stupid question.
Click to expand...

You would lose.
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
pippen429 said:
I saw that and that's where I'm confused because both rigid and EMT have threaded ENTRIES, EMT via it's threaded connector?
Click to expand...

It is not the raceway that need to have threads but the box, which is required to have threaded hub's that are part of the box as it was manufactured, also you can not just install a myers hub to a box to comply with this requirment.
 
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pippen429

Member
Location
san diego
hurk27 said:
It is not the raceway that need to have threads but the box, which is required to have threaded hub's that are part of the box as it was manufactured, also you can not just install a myers hub to a box to comply with this requirment.
Click to expand...

Oh I see, thanks for clearing that up for me.
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
pippen429 said:
I might be overanalyzing this but I'm wondering if it's possible to support a j-box ONLY by it's entering conduits (EMT). According to 314.23 (E) it sounds like it is but I just need clarification.

314.23 (E) Raceway Supported Enclosure, Without Devices,
Luminaires, or Lampholders. An enclosure that does not
contain a device(s) other than splicing devices or support a
luminaire(s), lampholder, or other equipment and is supported
by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm3
(100 in.3) in size. It shall have threaded entries or have
hubs identified for the purpose. It shall be supported by two
or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or
hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 900 mm (3 ft) of
the enclosure, or within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure if
all conduit entries are on the same side.

Could the "enclosure" be a standard 4s box? It sounds like it only needs 2 conduits entering the box in order to consider the box supported, as long as the conduits are supported within 3 feet? If an inspector called you on this, who would win the battle? Thanks in advance and sorry if this is a stupid question.
Click to expand...

It looks like 314.23 that you need to have threaded openings or threaded hubs and a regular 1900 box it would be lock nuts so if that is the case then you can't do that ..

I have been known to be wrong before..:lol:



Welcome to the forum.....:thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
tkb

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
hurk27 said:
It is not the raceway that need to have threads but the box, which is required to have threaded hub's that are part of the box as it was manufactured, also you can not just install a myers hub to a box to comply with this requirment.
Click to expand...

The way I read 314.23(E) is that not only the box needs threaded hubs, the conduit needs to be threaded as well or else it can't be threaded wrenchtight into the hub.
 
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ngd4130

Member
don_resqcapt19 said:
Note that the exception only permits the EMT to support a "conduit body". It does not permit the EMT to support a "box".
Click to expand...

IMO, if you use EMT, you are relying on the set screw for your support - I would not accept this application. If you use rigid conduit with lock nuts on each side of the box and they were wrench tight, as the code implies, the box would be considered supported. An example is the installation of an exit/emg sign if installed in a high ceiling area where the sign needs to be at door level.
 
tkb

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
ngd4130 said:
IMO, if you use EMT, you are relying on the set screw for your support - I would not accept this application. If you use rigid conduit with lock nuts on each side of the box and they were wrench tight, as the code implies, the box would be considered supported. An example is the installation of an exit/emg sign if installed in a high ceiling area where the sign needs to be at door level.
Click to expand...

WRONG, the box needs to have threaded hubs. Locknuts do not comply.
Every exit sign hung your way is a code violation.

Read the article carefully.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
tkb said:
The way I read 314.23(E) is that not only the box needs threaded hubs, the conduit needs to be threaded as well or else it can't be threaded wrenchtight into the hub.
Click to expand...


I agree. The threaded wrenchtight requirement sinks any use of EMT.
 
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