Stab in receptacles now against code

[iwire]

I look at it as a "surface area" contact issue. If you take a close look at backstabbing there is very little surface area contact between the wire and the device connection. In a properly terminated screw or clamp connection there is a much greater surface area of contact (provided they are tightened).

Without a doubt.

But what also needs to be looked at is costs. as George was hinting at is that if the customer has beat the contractors down to bargain basement pricing they are going to get the faster installation methods regardless if that means higher failure rates down the road.

 

[jwelectric]

Is not the surface area not about the same?

 

[iwire]

Is not the surface area not about the same?

It looks to me to be about 1/2 the contact area.


BTW, thanks for the picture.

 

[K8MHZ]

Not a factory, the shops warehouse.

You have a team of apprentii sitting at tables putting pigtails on thousands of devices?

That's not a reality here. The state makes us have a j-man to apprentice ratio. 1 to 1, or 1 to 2, depending on the type of work. Helpers are not allowed. No more herds of apprentii being shepherded by a single j-man.

I also agree that it's better to keep the devices in factory packaging until they are needed. So, my 'reality' would be me doing them one or two rooms at a time, standing up, at a counter or some makeshift bench.

Beside the fact the pig-tailing is a great method of installation, putting the conductors on the devices at a bench or a table is far better than doing it at receptacle level. At least that's what my back tells me. I think the quality ends up higher, too, as it's easier to see and work off a bench or a table.

The addition of wagos is an interesting concept. I wonder how long it will be before someone comes up with a pig tail with wagos already installed?

 

[dana1028]

When installed properly, they don't fail. So is it the device that is defective or the worker????

I agree, I don't use them but I have seen existing work 10+ yrs. old with them still working fine.

 

[svh19044]

The majority of backstabbing that I have seen which has failed is one of the following...

1. Aluminum wire
2. 12ga in stab-in meant for 14ga
3. broken/brittle wire from trying to force wire in to stab in area, so not actually a stab in loose connection at all

The above can usually be attributed to plugging in a heavy "appliance" such as a vacuum cleaner.


I see 14ga stab in failures as much as I do loose screw terminals on receptacles, which is rare. As much as I personally dog installers who use the back stabs and don't do it myself, when done properly (14g copper straight in), it really isn't as much of an issue as it is made out to be. There is no reason for this to be against code, again, if done properly.

 

[jwelectric]

It looks to me to be about 1/2 the contact area.


BTW, thanks for the picture.

You welcome

The same strip is done either for the back stab or the wrap around.

 

[steve66]

You welcome

The same strip is done either for the back stab or the wrap around.

True, but the screw keeps a lot more pressure on the wire end than the backstab tab.

 

[iwire]

True, but the screw keeps a lot more pressure on the wire end than the backstab tab.

And the screw head it self adds contact area. The screw is a 10, with threads it is still larger conductor than say the break off tab joining the terminals together.

 

[rt66electric]

easymoney

easymoney

Keepbackstabin and no-twisting wirenuts. I need the job security. I makes me look like a physic genious when I look around and see a portable heater , then goto receptacle that is nearer to the panel and replace it and PRESTO everthing works again. Customers just do not like my price to replace all of the devices.

 

[perry vogler]

Stab receptacles connections are legal if they are listed and labeled for the application. Read the box to see. Number 12 wire and larger are rarely seen and used. The was a problem with the receptacles holes being large enough to let #12 wire in the stab but being listed for #14. I'am sure some lawyer straighten that out because in the last 5 years or so. I have not seen the larger stab holes. Also with GFI receptacles 15 amp rated, it's hard to get a #12 solid in the ground hole even though it legal.
As far as that being ethical to use the stab when wiring with #14 in a home, you better are you will go out of business. This is a tested connection, the manufacture is ultimately responsible for the failure if it is use for it's intended purpose.
I personally don't use the stabs either but I don't do much residential work. Perry Vogler

 

[hurk27]

Stab receptacles connections are legal if they are listed and labeled for the application. Read the box to see. Number 12 wire and larger are rarely seen and used. The was a problem with the receptacles holes being large enough to let #12 wire in the stab but being listed for #14. I'am sure some lawyer straighten that out because in the last 5 years or so. I have not seen the larger stab holes. Also with GFI receptacles 15 amp rated, it's hard to get a #12 solid in the ground hole even though it legal.
As far as that being ethical to use the stab when wiring with #14 in a home, you better are you will go out of business. This is a tested connection, the manufacture is ultimately responsible for the failure if it is use for it's intended purpose.
I personally don't use the stabs either but I don't do much residential work. Perry Vogler

UL stopped listing receptacle devices for use with #12 in the back stap because of the pressure the larger wire put on the connection when bending it into the device box, this was pushing the wire to only make contact on one side and caused a higher failure rate.

 

[George Stolz]

Number 12 wire and larger are rarely seen and used.

They've been extinct for years.

Also with GFI receptacles 15 amp rated, it's hard to get a #12 solid in the ground hole even though it legal.

Someone makes a backstabbed grounding terminal?

I've only seen sidewired GFCI receptacles, and had no problem installing #12 in them.

 

[hurk27]

They've been extinct for years.

Someone makes a backstabbed grounding terminal?

I've only seen sidewired GFCI receptacles, and had no problem installing #12 in them.

Many GFCI's now come with clamp plates but have holes in the back to guide the wire in place and the hole for the ground wire is tight with #12 and if there is a little bend or kink in the conductor it can be hard to get in the hole, but some think these are the same as a back stab but they are not since you have to tighten the screw to make the connection.

 

[floater4444]

What about job security. I love troubleshooting I see more stab in failures. Maybe, that is attributed to cheapo houses where one is rushing through it like a BOSS! Maybe not though, now that I think about it. Whenever I see stab in failures, the recepticle is usually in bad shape anyway. Same with screw terminals. I have seen wirenuts fail too. Maybe we should go back to soldering and wrapping the berjesus out of it? I have never seen that fail. The insulation will crumble apart in my hands, but the connection is still good. I don't know if that is a good thing or bad thing? I think, as electricians, we want them to fail at the right time, so someone has to call us to look at it. I think that is the whole point. Rather than, trip, reset, trip, reset.... FIRE!