3 Single Phase motors on one three pole MCB

Status
Not open for further replies.

greggs007

Member
Location
India
Hi,

Can I connect three 220V Single-phase 18 Kw motors on a 3 pole 63Amps C-Curve MCB? Some more points are: -

(a) The neutral is shared.
(b) The Starting current of each motor is 26A.
(c) The motors do not start simultaneously.
(d) The MCB is branched from 200A 35kA TPN MCCB.
(e) There is additional load of approx. 100A on MCCB, which is lighting load.

Would this configuration be normal.

Thanks
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
welcome to the Forum.

either I have forgotten how to do math or there is a whole lot more to "kw" listings on motors than I realized.
18 kw at 220 volts ? (81 amps) ?
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Taking into account that we have to do a bit of "manipulating" with 430.52 due to the 18 kw load vs actual HP, it would appear that the configuration you provide would be a NEC violation as your 63 amp breaker exceeds the 430.52 requirement for a SC-GF protective device.

I am also assuming there is overload protection.
 

copper chopper

Senior Member
Location
wisconsin
dear greegs, you posted that they have a shared neutral, does this mean they are connected to a 3 phase system, with a grounded B phase...??? and only 1 phase from each motor has overload protection via the circuit breaker..?
 
Taking into account that we have to do a bit of "manipulating" with 430.52 due to the 18 kw load vs actual HP, it would appear that the configuration you provide would be a NEC violation as your 63 amp breaker exceeds the 430.52 requirement for a SC-GF protective device.

I am also assuming there is overload protection.

The 63A device is not listed as one of standard rating per NEC. Its an IEC standard rating. All the other data reflects an IEC installation so I do not think that the question is asking NEC compliance.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Guys, he is not in the US. He likely has a 380/220Y system. Phase to Neutral would be 220V, so what he is wanting to know is if he can protect 3 single phase motors with one 3 pole breaker. And in his case, the NEC is irrelevant, although the engineering principals behind it are.

Greggs007,
Please keep in mind that we are here to offer suggestions, the chief one being, get professional help where you are from someone familiar with your local issues. An on-line forum is not a form of free engineering.

My answer is, probably not, but not for the reasons you think. I should preface this however with the fact that you have asked this question in a forum dedicated to the US National Electric Code, so most of the people reading this, like me, are not going to be familiar with code issues in other countries.

1) You are using an MCCB that is rated at 35kA interrupting. That implies that you have an available fault current that may be in excess of what any MCB is going to be rated at. Most that I am aware of are only rated at 10kA and unless there is some specific series rating with that MCCB, you are going to be unable to use an MCB like that. That is something you need to check out with your local code authorities.

2) If you have a fault on any one motor, the fact that you have a 3 pole breaker means that all three are going to be disconnected when the breaker trips. This is not something done here in the US, although I'm not sure it is impermissible. I just happen to think it is a poor practice. For example if you need to lock-out any one motor for the purposes of servicing it, you will have to lock-out all three. That can end up being undesirable for a service technician who needs to test something, so it may lead to him being forced to forgo the lock-out altogether and put himself at risk. I don't like it.

3) I am now confused as to the math on your decision to use a 63A MCB in the first place. If, as you now say, these are 4.5kW 220V single phase motors that have a nameplate of 18A (much more reasonable numbers), then a 63A MCB would be far too large here in the US for that motor. Again, you would need to consult your codes for what is appropriate.

4) A "C" trip curve is often used for motors as it has a 5-10X In magnetic trip curve. But the thermal trip curve is not adjustable and will not be optimum for motor protection. However, many single phase motors have integral thermal protection anyway; we have no way of knowing. So I suggest either using another Overload Relay down stream, or if you insist on a 3 pole solution, use a Motor Protector Switch type of device that has magnetic trips similar to a C curve and fully adjustable thermal trips like an overload relay. That is what those are for.
 
Last edited:

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Since TM breakers are applied to protect cable wouldn't it make sence to uncomplicate things and simply size your cable to carry the load and then size the breaker to protect the cable? Each motor should have at lease a motor starter if not a combination starter.
 

greggs007

Member
Location
India
3 Single Phase motors on one three pole MCB

Thank you for your answers. I understand that I should go for proper discrimination and association of protective devices.

Regards
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top