Inspector fails us because POE Ip cameras are not UL approved!

[Twoskinsoneman]

hand to God, that is the only reason we failed an inspection...because the POE cameras we used (Toshiba) were not UL. (The POE network switch IS UL). I've never even seen an UL poe IP camera before! Where is it listed in the NEC that something like a 12v dc IP camera needs a UL listing?

:rant:

I feel bad for you. It is simply ridiculous.

 

[iwire]

I feel bad for you. It is simply ridiculous.

Ridiculous or not it apparently is a long standing requirement in that area and we are expected to know the rules for the area we are working in. Other ECs may have lost the job because they bid with compliant equipment.

 

[MAK]

I feel bad for you. It is simply ridiculous.

There is a lot of stuff made in China that is sub par. I see camera catalogs with all kinds of junk in them. Maybe that is why the AHJ is emphasizing that the cameras be listed. Perhaps they have seen them fail in spectacular fashion.

 

[jim dungar]

Maybe that is why the AHJ is emphasizing that the cameras be listed. Perhaps they have seen them fail in spectacular fashion.

Listing has absolutely nothing to with quality. Listing is about not causing fires and electric shock.

 

[kwired]

I may be wrong but I heard a story once about equipment that an inspector did not like certain conditions yet it was UL listed. The condition was a face up panelboard in a piece of equipment. This inspector felt this was a fairly dangerous condition to have live bus facing up like that. All you need is to drop a screwdriver or other tool while working on it and you have fireworks. It would not have been that hard to mount it in a vertical position.

The guy decided to find out more about why this piece gets a listing with that condition. What he had found out about at the time was that the particular condition was never requested to be evaluated by UL. they only evaluate what they are asked to evaluate. He thought this was pretty stupid when the problem he saw looked fairly obvious as a safety hazard.

A UL listing does not mean a product is safe. It just means it has been evaluated for certain criteria, along with an intended purpose of use. Use it for something other than the intended use and the listing means nothing. Bring a condition that was not part of the testing and the listing means nothing.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Just curious - how does NC deal with general purpose motors?

What am I missing- are general purpose motors not listed?

In NC the "Office Of the State Fire Marshal" and the "Department of Insurance" are for all intent and purposes the AHJ.

Roger

And yet I have been told by Ron that he cannot make an inspector adhere to his interpretation. So how are they the AHJ. Just last week I had an inspector say " I don't give a damn what Ron thinks, I am the AHJ". :thumbsdown:

 

[roger]

What am I missing- are general purpose motors not listed?



And yet I have been told by Ron that he cannot make an inspector adhere to his interpretation. So how are they the AHJ. Just last week I had an inspector say " I don't give a damn what Ron thinks, I am the AHJ". :thumbsdown:

I think that may boil down to not wanting to push his authority, not NC codes, rules, laws, or statutes. If the inspector has a difference of opinion in interpretation and Ron doesn't want to take charge that doesn't change the state statutes or codes decided on by the BCC

Roger

 

[kwired]

What am I missing- are general purpose motors not listed

Usually not. Haz Loc motors are, genaral purpose are not.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Ridiculous or not it apparently is a long standing requirement in that area and we are expected to know the rules for the area we are working in.

I understand that. And the OP should have adjusted accordingly. But IMO the rule is ridiculous.

 

[rbalex]

What am I missing- are general purpose motors not listed?

...

No, general purpose motors (UL Category Code PRGY) are not listed by any NRTL. While CSA lists GP motors they are not a NRTL for that purpose since the listing is to Canadian Standards.

UL does list motors for "Class I, Groups B, C and D; Class II, Groups E, F and G hazardous locations." (UL Category Code PTDR) Note it makes no distiction for Division. These are essentially explosionproof/dust ignitionproof motors. However unlisted GP motors are acceptable in say Class I, Division 2.

 

[jwjrw]

One inspector here failed a sandwich shop because the clock on the wall was not ul listed. He also kept a big gym from opening because 3 of the treadmills all new and the same models were missing their ul stickers. He is not to popular here.

 

[mstrmp3]

update**

update**

we are getting a field rep to UL sticker each camera. Toshiba is reimbursing us for the cost of the labeling...that was mighty nice of them. we did get a TCO in the meantime.

 

[weressl]

I have posed that same question to inspectors and never have received a real answer, I think they basically ignore the situation.

Roger

I think a simple addendum like: 'where approved equipment generally available for the type and application', would clear up that contradiction to real life.