60 to 50 Hz

[Marky Spike]

Greetings fellow keepers of the spark,

What I have is a portable building that will be going to England.
All of the loads are electronic equipment 120v 60Hz There is also a mini split AC unit 208-240v single phase 60Hz

The crux of the matter is the power over in England is 230V 50Hz

So with that said, is there a converter that can be bought or does the equipment have to be 50Hz ?

Not sure how to attack this,

Any and all insight would be much appreciated:thumbsup:

 

[AdrianWint]

Hello from one of the Brit members of this forum!

You are correct, our power supply is 230V single phase or 400V three phase. Those are the only two offerings...... no 120-0-120 or fancy delta arrangements here I'm afraid.

Is this building going to be permanent or 'on-loan'?

If on loan , then I guess you'll need a transformer to step down from 230 to 120V. Most of the electronic stuff probably won't care about the 50Hz but the motors in the aircon almost certainly will! You'll need to change this for a UK model.

If this is going to be a permanent structure then you'll need to seriously consider getting it rewired here

You could buy an electronic converter to change 50Hz to 60Hz ...... what size load are we talking about? I've just purchased a 30kVA 50Hz to 60Hz unit for ?9000


Our rules on earthing/bonding are different to yours so you may need to do some work here, as are our rules on the use of RCDs (GFCIs to you!) .

If you give me more details of the building & the loads I'll try to give you a more detailed reply.

Adrian

 

[Marky Spike]

This building is a portable unit on a trailer,
It has a 60 A panel in it it will need roughly 15Kva
It has a couple of laser engravers and a couple computers all on a UPS
all those loads are 120 v The Mini split is 240v 15A
It looks like the converter looks like the best way to go.

 

[AdrianWint]

Ok,

So I guess your looking at a 20kVA converter with 400V 3 phase 50Hz in & 120-0-120V split phase 60Hz out?

Shouldnt be too much of an issue. I know of at least one Company who could supply that for you, either on hire or as a sale

<can I give names here or do we need to do this in private? - I have no connection with this Company other than being a happy customer >

 

[Rick Christopherson]

This building is a portable unit on a trailer,
It has a 60 A panel in it it will need roughly 15Kva
It has a couple of laser engravers and a couple computers all on a UPS
all those loads are 120 v The Mini split is 240v 15A
It looks like the converter looks like the best way to go.

Check your equipment labels, but the things you described are mainly DC internally, so they usually don't care about the frequency.

 

[hurk27]

Check your equipment labels, but the things you described are mainly DC internally, so they usually don't care about the frequency.

E'rrr the air conditioner (mini-split) will care, the rest wont but might not like the 230 volts being fed to it? he will still need 120 volts

 

[hurk27]

E'rrr the air conditioner (mini-split) will care, the rest wont but might not like the 230 volts being fed to it? he will still need 120 volts

Ok I take some of that back, while many computers made today are 120-230 volt 50/60hz, and I have seen 230 volt motors rated 50/60 hZ it is possible that it all might work if the equipment will accept those different ratings? motors and or compressors will run slower on 50hz, will it affect its performance?

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Right, that's why I said he should check the labeling. He may still need a transformer, but that is a lot cheaper than an inverter.

 

[GeorgeB]

What I have is a portable building that will be going to England.
All of the loads are electronic equipment 120v 60Hz There is also a mini split AC unit 208-240v single phase 60Hz

The crux of the matter is the power over in England is 230V 50Hz

Others have substantially said the same thing, but on the electronic loads, check the labels ... I'd guess that way over 80% of the modern equipment with switching supplies are marked for 100-240V 50-60. I don't know who still uses 25Hz, but I've a couple that say 100-240V 25-60Hz.

The mini split MAY be ok at 50Hz ... check with the manufacturer. The motors will run as 83% of design speed, hindering airflow more than compressor performance.

 

[AdrianWint]

The OP might just get away with a transformer, if the AIrcon unit is suitable for 50Hz

Even if the PSU's in the PC etc are Ok with 230V, he still has a problem since this trailer has internal wiring, distribution etc. He can't just connect this to 230V - that won't fly under UK rules or US rules ..... not least of all because he'll have 230V on a 120V style outlet. Also, presumably this trailer has lighting? That won't care about the frequency but will , I guess, be expecting 120V?

Adrian

 

[Besoeker]

I'd guess that way over 80% of the modern equipment with switching supplies are marked for 100-240V 50-60.

No disagreement but a word of caution on the following:

The mini split MAY be ok at 50Hz ... check with the manufacturer. The motors will run as 83% of design speed, hindering airflow more than compressor performance.

Motors may run slower depending on type. But the 50Hz would result in 20% greater flux density and that has a fair chance of resulting in magnetic saturation unless the equipment is designed to run at the lower frequency.

 

[Besoeker]

Even if the PSU's in the PC etc are Ok with 230V, he still has a problem since this trailer has internal wiring, distribution etc. He can't just connect this to 230V - that won't fly under UK rules or US rules ..... not least of all because he'll have 230V on a 120V style outlet. Also, presumably this trailer has lighting? That won't care about the frequency but will , I guess, be expecting 120V?

Adrian

Good points. Most of the US 120V plugs I've seen are two pin - just live and neutral. Not exactly BS1363.

 

[tortuga]

I am still looking for a mini split that says 60hz only. All I have installed recently are 50/60 hz 230V labeled with blue and brown conductors. Blue is the neutral or grounded conductor there. All the ones I have seen use VFD's so they wont care about the input hz.
I agree with the others if you check your labeling really well I'd be surprised if you needed any converter or transformer at all.
All my T8 electronic ballasts in the truck are 120-277V 50/60 hz & 120VDC.

Think of it as a 480Y277 utility xformer supplying just a 2 wire 277V service 1 hot 1 grounded conductor (neutral to utility). Like here there should be no fuses or breakers in the grounded conductor. I suspect you will need a EU "service" style panel with RCD/GFCI breakers with a 30ma trip rating on all branch circuits. You should hire a local electrical contractor there to do the "service" or feeder to the building and set a new panel or do a panel change.

If you wanted to get crazy... you could supply a '240' volt feeder panel like for 3 phase delta with wild leg. Get straight rated single pole only breakers 240 to ground not 120/240V breakers. Install a jumper to the other buss in the panel to make it a 1 hot panel. The local electrician could feed this with a RCD protected breaker in the service. If you were to move the building to some place with 120/240 you would separate the 2 busses and add a 2 pole breaker for the minisplit. Have a local sparky on board with this before attempting.

Siemens makes a panel board (not a load center) listed for 415Y240 as well as 125VDC and other bizarre systems like 5 wire 2 phase.
Other issues are:
The 5-15 receptacles. Change cords and recepts to 6-15?
You can not have a grounded white conductor. Case of blue tape to re identify conductors?
Cheers

 

[jjkind]

Adrian,

Do you happen to know the efficiency of your 60/50Hz frequency converter? Just curious...

Thanks,
Jeremy