Not really 250ft. in a roll of romex?

[realolman]

Throw them people outta an airplane, and they'd miss the world.

... to be off by 10% , they'd have to be off by 1.2" per foot. That's some pretty crappy measurement... You can manufacture wire, and you can't measure it better than that?!? :-?.. come on.

Ain't no way they're being that sloppy with their own materials.

 

[quogueelectric]

I too have been told and unfortunately have experienced the - 10% side from factory - However in building wire cut to length Southwire and others you can and should specific exact length required for wire order. This puts factory on notice that if you have specified 820' of 500KCMIL on a reel of wire for a pull that they must provide at least that amount - I am not concerned if they decide to ship 830' feet but am surely more than upset should they ship 800' feet on a 820' run and it comes up short in the pull. Not a good thing for them as that ugly word backcharge gets tossed about and usually applied to the distributor and the manufacturer of the wire.

Have a great day all!

Steve

Please send 480 gps coordinates of the job so he can further investigate its truthfullness or if it is just a bs story. Please he is waitng with breathless anticipation.

 

[realolman]

I just think there is a lot of "common knowlege" floating around that is not very knowlegable... or well thought out.

Let's see...a company is capable of manufactuing wire, and can't measure it any closer than + - 10 %. How do you calibrate a measuring device to be within 1.2" per foot?... or is it 2.4" per foot?:-?

There are some bean counters, engineers , and mechanics there who are seriously deficient.

Nobody's gonna be that sloppy as to not know where 20% of their finished product is.

"We sell 500 million dollars worth of wire a year and we might have had $50,000,000 more income, or $50,000,000 less. We just don't know. If we could only measure the length of our product."

Please do send me the GPS co-ordinates. I'd like to apply to be the plant manager for + -10% of what I can save them.:smile:

 

[jim dungar]

I just think there is a lot of "common knowlege" floating around that is not very knowlegable... or well thought out.

Let's see...a company is capable of manufactuing wire, and can't measure it any closer than + - 10 %. How do you calibrate a measuring device to be within 1.2" per foot?... or is it 2.4" per foot?:-?

There are some bean counters, engineers , and mechanics there who are seriously deficient.

Nobody's gonna be that sloppy as to not know where 20% of their finished product is.

A +/- tolerance does not mean the manufacturer can not measure correctly. It means that they don't care what they send you as long as it is close to what you ordered.

Assume that a conductor comes in 1000' master rolls. The first customer orders 490' of conductor which the manufacturer very accurately cuts and ships. Now you order 520' of the same item. The manufacturer now has to chose between cutting open a new master roll, and ending up with two partials, or of sending you exactly 510' (your order -2%).

If this was your inventory, what would you do?

 

[Besoeker]

A +/- tolerance does not mean the manufacturer can not measure correctly. It means that they don't care what they send you as long as it is close to what you ordered.

Assume that a conductor comes in 1000' master rolls. The first customer orders 490' of conductor which the manufacturer very accurately cuts and ships. Now you order 520' of the same item. The manufacturer now has to chose between cutting open a new master roll, and ending up with two partials, or of sending you exactly 510' (your order -2%).

If this was your inventory, what would you do?

Doesn't Romex come on standard rolls? Could you actually buy 490 feet rather than taking two 250 feet rolls?

 

[realolman]

A +/- tolerance does not mean the manufacturer can not measure correctly. It means that they don't care what they send you as long as it is close to what you ordered.

Assume that a conductor comes in 1000' master rolls. The first customer orders 490' of conductor which the manufacturer very accurately cuts and ships. Now you order 520' of the same item. The manufacturer now has to chose between cutting open a new master roll, and ending up with two partials, or of sending you exactly 510' (your order -2%).

If this was your inventory, what would you do?

Knowing what I know about wiring, I'd send you what you ordered... or call and find out if I could send you less.
510' is useless if you need 520'

Plus that's not what we're talking about here:

I have worked in Maint. at a wire manufacturing plant.. They wanted the footage counters set-up at +/- 10%..

 

[jim dungar]

Knowing what I know about wiring, I'd send you what you ordered... or call and find out if I could send you less.
510' is useless if you need 520'.

Yeah, but having a published tolerance policy would mean you would not have to make as many phones calls.

Plus that's not what we're talking about here:

I have worked in Maint. at a wire manufacturing plant.. They wanted the footage counters set-up at +/- 10%..

Yes, it might. Consider that the footage counter keeps track of actual length, but the cutting occurs at -10% of the value entered. You ask for 500', the machine only cuts 450', you only pay for what they actually ship. Or, the machine is winding a 500' spool and only gets to 485' before the product runs out, with a -10% tolerance the 'short' spool would still get shipped instead of being considered a reject but the machine still knows exactly how much was cut.

I do find it hard to believe (although it could be possible) that standard put ups of any product would not be consistent in length and rarely vary by more than 1 foot.

 

[wptski]

If they can't get any closer than +/-10%, they sure aren't ISO 9001 quality companies which is the current quality buzzword used!

 

[jim dungar]

ISO 9001 certification means that you do things consistently, not necessarily correctly.

 

[LarryFine]

Now you order 520' of the same item. The manufacturer now has to chose between cutting open a new master roll ... or ... sending you exactly 510' (your order -2%).

If this was your inventory, what would you do?

510' is useless if you need 520'

I agree, and I know what I'd do if I received less than what I ordered. If they say I have to order - and pay for - an extra 10% because of their business practices, then I buy my wire elsewhere.

It's up to me to err on the side of caution when I measure and order a length of wire, but once I come up with a number, as long as what I receive is at least that long, they've filled my order.

If I order 520', and they won't try to get closer than 10% of my order, it's upon them to tell the wire-cutting department whatever they have to tell them to assure my wire is at least 520'.

 

[480sparky]

It would be a very interesting concept to take this 10% +/- concept to the next level..... that of paying your supply house.

"Here's my check for $10,000 for this month's invoices, Chuck. You may get a credit in your bank account for $11,000, or it may end up being only $9,000. Good luck!"

 

[jim dungar]

If they say I have to order - and pay for - an extra 10% because of their business practices, then I buy my wire elsewhere.

What if they only charged you for what you got, but what you got is 10% less than what you wanted?

I have never heard of a manufacturer charging 100% for a +/- tolerance. Every time I have had to accept a tolerance issue, the pricing was based on what was actually shipped. And no, I don't like getting and paying for, 10% more than I need either.

 

[LarryFine]

What if they only charged you for what you got, but what you got is 10% less than what you wanted?

Then, my order wasn't filled, and I expect the replacement expedited and delivered directly to me. Now, I'm losing time, unless there's something else to do while I'm waiting.

Then, I have to consider cost of re-pulling, and maybe extending equipment rental time. Or, is it encumbent upon me to measure every length of conductor before I install it?

If I get lunch to go, should I have to stand at the counter, or sit at the drive-thru window, and open everything to make sure it's made right? And, if it's wrong, I have to wait . . . again.


As the old man said:

510' is useless if you need 520'

 

[jim dungar]

Then, my order wasn't filled, and I expect the replacement expedited and delivered directly to me.

If their published terms include tolerances and they only charge for what they have shipped, they have met their contractual requirements.

I know many people are not aware of all of the fine print in manufacturers "Terms and Conditions of Sale". Hopefully this thread has pointed out the need to investigate and understand potential gotchas. Just because you have never had a problem before, does not mean that Murphy's Law will not catch up to you someday.

 

[realolman]

It's hard for me to understand why someone would defend such nonsense.

I would expect tolerences to apply to reasonable measurement capabilities and needs. I would not expect anyone using a tape measure to measure anything closer than + - 1/32" ... probably more like 1/16".

1/32" would be uselessly sloppy in machined parts.

So... I should think it reasonable that a 16' 2"X4" to be within a 1/16 " ( actually I'd expect it to be closer than that ), but a 16 foot piece of wire could be 19.2" short? Good grief!

A large part of the problem with the world today is that there are those so lacking in ethics, and self centered that they think that sort of nonsense is acceptable. Think only of youself... the heck with your customer.

Everything we get we have to be the QC department for the company that manufactured it. It's ridiculous. UPS is making out on it, though... so long as they continue to deliver it within 10 percent of the total shipping distance.

 

[jmiller_55]

We are referring to 250, 500 or 1000' spools, coils, or reels of wire and NOT 16'.... I actually think this thread is called 250' in a roll of romex.... Like it or not right or wrong that tolerance was their standard..... I argued with them about it.... There are several other things that I know after working here that prevents me from using their wire..... I WILL NEVER USE IT......

 

[LarryFine]

If their published terms include tolerances and they only charge for what they have shipped, they have met their contractual requirements.

I don't agree. I have no problem with sending back what is useless to me just because it's as close as they want to try to get.

So I should be satisfied with "Hey, it may be 20' shorter than what you asked for, but we didn't charge you for the missing amount!"

Big whoop! As I said, if I need 520', they need to do whatever they need to do so I receive at least 520', even if it means cuting 530'.

Added: When I place my order, if someone needs to add a fudge factor to make sure I get it, so be it. Let them fudge.

 

[jim dungar]

Added: When I place my order, if someone needs to add a fudge factor to make sure I get it, so be it. Let them fudge.

Exactly.

My point is you need to know the "Terms and Conditions" of the contract you are entering into, and then how to accommodate them to suit your needs/requirements.

 

[LarryFine]

My point is you need to know the "Terms and Conditions" of the contract you are entering into, and then how to accommodate them to suit your needs/requirements.

My point is that the wire seller should also know his Terms and Conditions, and should do whatever it takes for me to receive what I order and pay for.

By the way, I've never heard of ordering a length of wire, but waiting until it arrives to see how many feet I'll actually be getting, or being billed for.

 

[kid_stevens]

With simpull they are always short in our favor as the rollers that measure the wire slip on simpull and let extra through.